Social Justice?

[Zymologist]

I didn't make this clear, but I meant to say that there are forms of social justice that God wants to see; but they may have little to nothing to do with how people actually use the term today. But that's their fault, not God's.

Ah, ok.

[Carrikature]

AFAICT, "social justice" as it's practiced today is not actually about justice at all.

'Justice' covers a lot of concepts, including things like fairness and equity. In common parlance, justice most often seems to be used as a placeholder for 'how I think the world should work'. Social justice is about justice, just not necessarily about what you consider just.

[Darth Executor]

It talks about corrupt court systems (verses 10 and 15), oppression of the poor through excessive taxation while the wealthy live in "stone mansions"... these are all social issues.

You're misreading it. It says nothing about the wealthy living in stone mansions. Rather it says that those who profited off the poor will build the mansions but not live in them. In other words, God's judgment will make sure the don't profit from their acts.

[seer]

Social justice is about justice, just not necessarily about what you consider just.

But isn't justice a relative concept? For instance I had a rather long discussion with some Occupy folks a couple of years back. They wanted burger flippers to get paid $20 an hour and a top tax rate of 90%. That was just according to them.

[KingsGambit]

But isn't justice a relative concept? For instance I had a rather long discussion with some Occupy folks a couple of years back. They wanted burger flippers to get paid $20 an hour and a top tax rate of 90%. That was just according to them.

The term is misused all the time (and that's a good example) but that doesn't mean there's no such thing as justice altogether.

[Carrikature]

But isn't justice a relative concept? For instance I had a rather long discussion with some Occupy folks a couple of years back. They wanted burger flippers to get paid $20 an hour and a top tax rate of 90%. That was just according to them.

Yes, justice is a relative concept. The ideas it revolves around are the same, but what form it takes can vary widely. I'll keep sticking with Wikipedia links until something deeper is needed, but it's worthwhile to read through the page on Justice to get some idea of the different views on the subject.

[seer]

The term is misused all the time (and that's a good example) but that doesn't mean there's no such thing as justice altogether.

Ok, I think we all believe in basic justice. But this social justice goes way beyond that. At least from what I have seen. You think that those college kids I was speaking to misused the term but this is exactly what social justice is to them.

[Cow Poke]

It talks about corrupt court systems (verses 10 and 15), oppression of the poor through excessive taxation while the wealthy live in "stone mansions"... these are all social issues. Not the ones that liberals today focus on the most, but social issues nonetheless.

I think Seer is referring to "Social Justice" as the term is used today, and I honestly don't think that's addressed by the verses in Amos.

[KingsGambit]

I think Seer is referring to "Social Justice" as the term is used today, and I honestly don't think that's addressed by the verses in Amos.

I definitely don't think it is either. I don't think I made that clear though.

[Cow Poke]

Ok, I think we all believe in basic justice. But this social justice goes way beyond that. At least from what I have seen. You think that those college kids I was speaking to misused the term but this is exactly what social justice is to them.

I think that "social justice" is an attempt to justify "fairness" ---- rich people should give "their fair share", etc. "Fairness" is a much more 'relative term' than justice is.

[Cow Poke]

I definitely don't think it is either. I don't think I made that clear though.

How bout taking another shot at it. How does Amos relate to "social justice" as the term is used today?

[seer]

Yes, justice is a relative concept. The ideas it revolves around are the same, but what form it takes can vary widely. I'll keep sticking with Wikipedia links until something deeper is needed, but it's worthwhile to read through the page on Justice to get some idea of the different views on the subject.

From what I have read, seen, it often boils down to the mere wealth redistribution. That somehow Joe down the street had a right to my hard earned money.

[KingsGambit]

How bout taking another shot at it. How does Amos relate to "social justice" as the term is used today?

I think it shows us that God does care about treating people fairly (with the emphasis on not overburdening poor people with taxes) and about corruption in courts. There's another verse somewhere where it says God loves honest measures and scales. This doesn't really play into the political games everybody is playing because I think most people on both sides of the political spectrum agree at the very least on these basic principles.

[Cow Poke]

From what I have read, seen, it often boils down to the mere wealth redistribution. That somehow Joe down the street had a right to my hard earned money.

I think it centers around (or depends upon) redistribution of wealth. Obama frequently refers to it when he uses the word "fair".

The question is - fair to whom?

[Cow Poke]

I think it shows us that God does care about treating people fairly (with the emphasis on not overburdening poor people with taxes) and about corruption in courts. There's another verse somewhere where it says God loves honest measures and scales. This doesn't really play into the political games everybody is playing because I think most people on both sides of the political spectrum agree at the very least on these basic principles.

But we get back to "what's fair"? If I have 3 cars, and a neighbor down the street has none, should it be "fair" that I have to give one of mine to him? Who determines what's "fair"?