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Turning Against The Cops

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  • Turning Against The Cops

    New York Post has an interesting about the current trend to turn against cops, forgetting what crime was like in the past.

    Source: NYPost

    Turning on the cops: Forgetting what crime was like

    As jaws flap nationwide and tongues cluck disapprovingly in the wake of the Ferguson grand jury’s decision not to indict Police Officer Darren Wilson in the shooting death of Michael Brown, consider this savage irony:

    Due to the heroic actions of America’s police officers and police departments over the past two decades, we are now free to have a national debate about the supposedly problematic behavior of America’s police officers and police departments.

    That debate doesn’t just involve minorities.

    The revolution in policing that swept through the nation in the early 1990s has changed American life so profoundly we can barely remember what it was like in the years when crime was the central domestic preoccupation of the United States.

    Consider this: Nearly 100 million people in this country were born after the national crime drop began in 1994.

    That means 100 million people think the way we live now is the natural state of things. Most of the rest of us have come to accept it as the “new normal” as well.

    This has happened several times in our history. As the late sociologist Eric Monkkonen wrote in his seminal 2001 study, “Murder in New York City,” Americans have often responded to an era of relative calm by deciding that the authorities have been too restrictive and cruel — resulting in a subsequent period in which greater laxity led to higher rates of crime.

    Americans today have either never known or have forgotten that that for decades, it was the working theory of police departments that their job was to respond to crimes after they occurred rather than to prevent crime from happening in the first place.

    © Copyright Original Source



    This was particularly interesting to me because my time as a police officer was prior to the 1993/1994 drop in crime, and I'm now involved with police departments AFTER that period of time... it sheds some light on some things.
    Last edited by Cow Poke; 11-27-2014, 02:02 PM.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since youve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?

  • #2
    What things? More and more reports of police brutality? Thefts by police, forfeiture of property that were allegedly involved in crimes and without trial.
    The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

    [T]he truth Im after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
      What things? More and more reports of police brutality?
      Police are, in fact, a product of society.

      Thefts by police,
      Um... did a cop steal your donut?

      forfeiture of property that were allegedly involved in crimes and without trial.
      I'm thinking maybe we can put you in the "I don't like cops" category.
      "Neighbor, how long has it been since youve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?

      Comment


      • #4
        You tend to have to divide this between the people who are "against the cops" as a concept and "against the cops" as in 'against police officers' in pariticular. Libertarians would tend to be the former, liberals the latter, most ghetto dwellers both, etc.

        I am certainly not an opponent of the security forces in any way, shape or form, but have no illusions that disinterested law enforcement is the cure for what ails us, either. In any case, thanks to a still-rather-high degree of local autonomy in police department hiring, most people tend to get the policing they deserve, whether through antagonizing the police force into harsh enforcement or driving it away so that their local and imported thugs can burn as they please.
        Last edited by Epoetker; 11-28-2014, 01:40 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          Police are, in fact, a product of society.
          Yes, but are you implying that society is worse off because of its police?



          Um... did a cop steal your donut?
          Tennessee's Highway Patrol is becoming notorious for stopping motorists, and ask them if they are carrying large sums of money. If the motorists say yes, the cops confiscate the money on the grounds that the motorists must have ill-gotten the money! Details here:
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tO_UWxkMsrk


          I'm thinking maybe we can put you in the "I don't like cops" category.
          Most cops are good, I think. I hope.
          The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

          [T]he truth Im after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Epoetker View Post
            You tend to have to divide this between the people who are "against the cops" as a concept and "against the cops" as in 'against police officers' in pariticular. Libertarians would tend to be the former, liberals the latter, most ghetto dwellers both, etc.

            I am certainly not an opponent of the security forces in any way, shape or form, but have no illusions that disinterested law enforcement is the cure for what ails us, either. In any case, thanks to a still-rather-high degree of local autonomy in police department hiring, most people tend to get the policing they deserve, whether through antagonizing the police force into harsh enforcement or driving it away so that their local and imported thugs can burn as they please.
            For some reason I wonder what you think about speed traps?
            The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

            [T]he truth Im after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

            Comment


            • #7
              Civil forfeiture abuse is a legitimate issue and I don't blame its victims for being upset about it. I'm not sure how widespread it is but suspect it may be more so than I know.

              But what Truthseeker described in Tennessee and portrayed as an ongoing thing stopped nearly two years ago: http://www.jrn.com/newschannel5/news...283425751.html
              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

              Comment


              • #8
                WOW. I just found this article. It's far worse than I thought.

                http://www.chicagotribune.com/classi...ry.html#page=4
                "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
                  Yes, but are you implying that society is worse off because of its police?
                  Nope.

                  Tennessee's Highway Patrol is becoming notorious for stopping motorists, and ask them if they are carrying large sums of money. If the motorists say yes, the cops confiscate the money on the grounds that the motorists must have ill-gotten the money! Details here:
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tO_UWxkMsrk
                  Shame on them.

                  Most cops are good, I think. I hope.
                  Yeah, I think.
                  "Neighbor, how long has it been since youve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
                    For some reason I wonder what you think about speed traps?
                    I've been caught in them deservedly and undeservedly, and will not use them as a club against law enforcement as a whole. All policing is local.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      "Who watches the watchmen?" asked a Roman poet a couple thousand years ago.

                      This is not the first time civil society has grappled with this issue. In order to effectively prevent crime, police departments need power, and power has a corrupting influence.
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        "Who watches the watchmen?" asked a Roman poet a couple thousand years ago.

                        This is not the first time civil society has grappled with this issue. In order to effectively prevent crime, police departments need power, and power has a corrupting influence.
                        Yeah.
                        "Neighbor, how long has it been since youve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                          WOW. I just found this article. It's far worse than I thought.

                          http://www.chicagotribune.com/classi...ry.html#page=4
                          clicking this link wants you to buy a subscription...can you summarize?
                          "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                          "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I think civil forfeiture is on the decline, overall. I'm glad I live in a state that doesn't allow civil forfeiture (pre-trial).
                            "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              How do they get around the constitution on civil forfeitures? You know that whole Fourth Amendment thing?
                              "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                              "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

                              Comment

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