The Victims of Gay Marriage

[Spartacus]

I don't find her argument convincing at all. Gay couples adopt children other people don't want. Women aren't being forced to carry children, like they are if abortion is illegal. She also appears to be a TERF, which means her viewpoint goes against current scientific understanding. I can understand the desire to speak against people who harass others, but to include idiotic viewpoints like these only muddles the message.

There are more people waiting to adopt infants than there are infants waiting to be adopted. Foster care is a different matter.

[Zymologist]

I don't find her argument convincing at all. Gay couples adopt children other people don't want. Women aren't being forced to carry children, like they are if abortion is illegal. She also appears to be a TERF, which means her viewpoint goes against current scientific understanding. I can understand the desire to speak against people who harass others, but to include idiotic viewpoints like these only muddles the message.

Eh, I mostly just posted that because of what she said about Rose's harassment.

[Psychic Missile]

Eh, I mostly just posted that because of what she said about Rose's harassment.

Oh, okay.

[fm93]

That was certainly a bizarre and disturbing story. But I believe it's fallacious for her to then generalize same-sex marriage itself based on her individual experience. I feel terrible for the women who've been devastated and betrayed after their husbands came out, but there are so many other instances of SSM that occur between gay men (or women) who've never been with people of the opposite sex. Children aren't caught as unsuspecting pawns in those cases. Nor do all gay couples behave in the ways that she described in the article. It seems odd to attack SSM itself based on what was ultimately an issue of a deceitful, power-hungry spouse rather than some inherent dysfunction.

[phank]

I must admit I don't see the problem as represented. What we have is someone whose marriage didn't work out. OK, welcome to the 50% of people whose marriages do not last a lifetime. Hey, even Dear Abby got divorced, and was obliged to admit that sometimes there is simply no good way to avoid it. And all too often, marriages with children fail to work, and the children become victims of broken homes. According to this article, in America in 2000 this was 60% of all children!

And all too often, when marriages fail they leave the woman with the children but without the income. No question, that's hard on both, but more often than not the men wish to retain custody of the children, and regardless of the reason for a failed marriage, everyone involved goes through an intensely painful process. I'm sure there are many reading these posts who have themselves suffered the failure of a once-promising relationship, and know this first hand.

As some have pointed out, divorce has become increasingly common over the decades. What nobody seems to remember is that marriages can fail even without divorce. When divorce was expensive and difficult to obtain, many failed couples were obliged to stay together in what amounted to a battle zone. If children were involved, those children became ammunition in the battle. It's a tough question whether children are better off living in a battleground of ongoing hostility, or better off with single parents or step-parents. None of these solutions is very appealing, but generally children of failed marriages which are replaced by happier relationships are better off.

There are probably as many reasons why marriages fail as there are failed marriages. I read that most failures revolve around some combination of money, sex, and religion. Underlying this seems to be an issue of conflicting expectations. Many marriages are like two people walking down the street who fall in step and find one another's company pleasant. And both of them take it for granted that when they get to the corner, they'll be going the same way. When it turns out they had different expectations, and that one or both is going to have to knuckle under or abandon the relationship, things get difficult. Priorities must be weighed, and currently about half the time, the marriage itself is the lower priority for one or both partners.

To some degree this can be anticipated, and there are counselors who can help prepare a couple for marriage by bringing to light issues which haven't been discussed because it simply never occured to either person that the other didn't want what they did, so they never discussed it.

But none of this really has anything to do with sexual orientation. Yes, I suppose discomfort pretending to an orientation you don't have can eventually be too much, but this is a VERY infrequent reason for a relationship to fail. I suppose one can hope that with current openness about orientation, people will no longer feel forced into marriages incompatible with their sexual needs, and this might reduce this rare problem even more. But if anything, same-sex marriage decreases the odds of it happening, because those oriented toward the same sex no longer have to choose between a bad marriage and no marriage.

[phank]

That was certainly a bizarre and disturbing story. But I believe it's fallacious for her to then generalize same-sex marriage itself based on her individual experience. I feel terrible for the women who've been devastated and betrayed after their husbands came out, but there are so many other instances of SSM that occur between gay men (or women) who've never been with people of the opposite sex. Children aren't caught as unsuspecting pawns in those cases. Nor do all gay couples behave in the ways that she described in the article. It seems odd to attack SSM itself based on what was ultimately an issue of a deceitful, power-hungry spouse rather than some inherent dysfunction.

I think there's a good point buried in there. While marrying someone of a different sexual orientation is becoming increasingly unnecessary, it's also true that initially happy same-sex marriages eventually fail, and sometimes children are also involved. In the long run, I would expect same-sex marriages to fail in about the same proportion as opposite-sex marriages -- about half the time -- and these failures will be no less painful for those involved, both parents and children.

[Bill the Cat]

Lesbian Couple Sues Sperm Bank for Black Baby


A pair of white lesbian women (I know, I know – all lesbians are women) are suing the sperm bank they used to have their 2nd child. Jennifer Cramblett of Uniontown, Ohio filed the lawsuit, saying that she and her partner, Amanda Zinkon, had chosen a white donor who had provided the sperm for their first child to also provide the sperm for their second. Somehow, though a paperwork error at the sperm bank, they accidentally received the wrong “donation.” Which led to them having a “mixed-race” child.

Cramblett says raising their 2-year-old daughter Payton has been stressful and that she continues to “live each day with fears, anxieties and uncertainty about her future and Payton’s future.”

While the lawsuit says they have bonded and love their mixed-raced child, raising her in a community that lacks diversity has caused emotional stress. Cramblett says she grew up in an “all white and unconsciously insensitive family” and doesn’t want their daughter to feel stigmatized. She said that she dreads the day when she’ll have to send Payton to an all-white school and that her therapist recommended she relocate to a more diverse neighborhood with good schools.

[Spartacus]

Lesbian Couple Sues Sperm Bank for Black Baby


A pair of white lesbian women (I know, I know – all lesbians are women) are suing the sperm bank they used to have their 2nd child. Jennifer Cramblett of Uniontown, Ohio filed the lawsuit, saying that she and her partner, Amanda Zinkon, had chosen a white donor who had provided the sperm for their first child to also provide the sperm for their second. Somehow, though a paperwork error at the sperm bank, they accidentally received the wrong “donation.” Which led to them having a “mixed-race” child.

Cramblett says raising their 2-year-old daughter Payton has been stressful and that she continues to “live each day with fears, anxieties and uncertainty about her future and Payton’s future.”

While the lawsuit says they have bonded and love their mixed-raced child, raising her in a community that lacks diversity has caused emotional stress. Cramblett says she grew up in an “all white and unconsciously insensitive family” and doesn’t want their daughter to feel stigmatized. She said that she dreads the day when she’ll have to send Payton to an all-white school and that her therapist recommended she relocate to a more diverse neighborhood with good schools.

Because obviously a community that can handle same-sex marriage just isn't ready for mixed-race kids.

Wait, that's not how the narrative is supposed to go...

[Zymologist]

I must admit I don't see the problem as represented. What we have is someone whose marriage didn't work out. OK, welcome to the 50% of people whose marriages do not last a lifetime. Hey, even Dear Abby got divorced, and was obliged to admit that sometimes there is simply no good way to avoid it. And all too often, marriages with children fail to work, and the children become victims of broken homes. According to this article, in America in 2000 this was 60% of all children!

And all too often, when marriages fail they leave the woman with the children but without the income. No question, that's hard on both, but more often than not the men wish to retain custody of the children, and regardless of the reason for a failed marriage, everyone involved goes through an intensely painful process. I'm sure there are many reading these posts who have themselves suffered the failure of a once-promising relationship, and know this first hand.

As some have pointed out, divorce has become increasingly common over the decades. What nobody seems to remember is that marriages can fail even without divorce. When divorce was expensive and difficult to obtain, many failed couples were obliged to stay together in what amounted to a battle zone. If children were involved, those children became ammunition in the battle. It's a tough question whether children are better off living in a battleground of ongoing hostility, or better off with single parents or step-parents. None of these solutions is very appealing, but generally children of failed marriages which are replaced by happier relationships are better off.

There are probably as many reasons why marriages fail as there are failed marriages. I read that most failures revolve around some combination of money, sex, and religion. Underlying this seems to be an issue of conflicting expectations. Many marriages are like two people walking down the street who fall in step and find one another's company pleasant. And both of them take it for granted that when they get to the corner, they'll be going the same way. When it turns out they had different expectations, and that one or both is going to have to knuckle under or abandon the relationship, things get difficult. Priorities must be weighed, and currently about half the time, the marriage itself is the lower priority for one or both partners.

To some degree this can be anticipated, and there are counselors who can help prepare a couple for marriage by bringing to light issues which haven't been discussed because it simply never occured to either person that the other didn't want what they did, so they never discussed it.

But none of this really has anything to do with sexual orientation. Yes, I suppose discomfort pretending to an orientation you don't have can eventually be too much, but this is a VERY infrequent reason for a relationship to fail. I suppose one can hope that with current openness about orientation, people will no longer feel forced into marriages incompatible with their sexual needs, and this might reduce this rare problem even more. But if anything, same-sex marriage decreases the odds of it happening, because those oriented toward the same sex no longer have to choose between a bad marriage and no marriage.

You seem to be saying that the ex-husband is still the victim in all of this, because he "felt forced into a marriage that was incompatible with his sexual needs."

[Country Sparrow]

Victims of homosexual marriage always includes impact on children brought into the equation. It's child abuse in a way. A child grows up seeing that model play out before them, two men or two women being intimate with each other in some form or fashion. That child then starts to come into their own as they approach puberty and they stand to feel wrong because those they're attracted to are of the opposite sex. It sets up an emotionally dysfunctional dynamic that impacts the child.


Support for gay marriage dips below 50 percent in Pew study

Tue Sep 23, 2014

[fm93]

Victims of homosexual marriage always includes impact on children brought into the equation. It's child abuse in a way. A child grows up seeing that model play out before them, two men or two women being intimate with each other in some form or fashion. That child then starts to come into their own as they approach puberty and they stand to feel wrong because those they're attracted to are of the opposite sex. It sets up an emotionally dysfunctional dynamic that impacts the child.


Support for gay marriage dips below 50 percent in Pew study

Tue Sep 23, 2014

It really doesn't work that way. If a child is straight, he or she won't feel "wrong" when experiencing attractions to people of the opposite sex. That's what's natural for them, and society doesn't tell them that being straight is sinful or an abomination against God or a disease that should be cured.

[Teallaura]

Perhaps because normal healthy sexuality doesn't need to be cured. Unhealthy, dangerous sexual practice, especially that which damages the participants and their intimates, does need to be addressed, either by confrontation or treatment.

We don't pour out the good milk just because the other carton went bad.

[Jedidiah]

Because obviously a community that can handle same-sex marriage just isn't ready for mixed-race kids.

Wait, that's not how the narrative is supposed to go...

They are really just interested in getting some money from someone else. That is all.