Are Men And Women Equal? The Ray Rice Test.

[Darth Executor]

right. because most people after seeing their fiancee knocked unconscious just stand there and call her name instead of bending over to see if they are still alive.

He's staggering left and right, he was probably fretting about it and panicking. Don't let me interrupt you about what "most people" would do about their fiancee being knocked uncoscious, especially after they had done it, apparently you've had it happen so often that you've become an expert on it.

[Sparko]

He's staggering left and right, he was probably fretting about it and panicking. Don't let me interrupt you about what "most people" would do about their fiancee being knocked uncoscious, especially after they had done it, apparently you've had it happen so often that you've become an expert on it.

[Teallaura]

We can presume he intended to defend himself, yes. He moved away after the double slap, she's the one who continued the aggression. We can presume he wasn't intending to beat her down. Quite the opposite.



I don't know what he claimed but a lot of people assume (wrongly) that when put in the spotlight for some wrongdoing, if they just apologize they'll be left alone. They usually fare better if they fight back because the mob loves to kick someone when they're down.

She slapped him and he punched her? Forget it, it can't be justified. Minor assault doesn't justify an escalation. Wouldn't matter if she had been a man instead - self defense never includes escalation - not ever. A pro boxer might - MIGHT - make a case for 'reflexive response' that MIGHT be taken seriously by a court... on some planet... but not a football player who is actually taught the opposite (punching on the field makes bad things happen when the refs get upset with you and take it out on your team...).

The guy's response isn't justifiable. The woman slapping him in the first place is probably not justifiable (there's a tiny chance but I doubt it). Two wrongs don't make a right. NEITHER is accidental; both are poor judgment at the very least.

And no, he shouldn't have been fired - that's pure PR.

[Paprika]

She slapped him and he punched her? Forget it, it can't be justified.

Good to see you've made up your mind.

[Teallaura]

Good to see you've made up your mind.

You cannot justify an escalation like that. Next time, try reading the whole thing.

[Darth Executor]

She slapped him and he punched her?

No, she slapped him, he slapped her back, then he backed away. She charged him, pissed, and that's when he hit her. I don't know what she was intending when she charged, could have been another slap, could have been an eye gouge, but she never got to pull it off.

Forget it, it can't be justified. Minor assault doesn't justify an escalation.

She is the one who escalated, he tried to back out, but I guess being in an elevator didn't give him much room.

Wouldn't matter if she had been a man instead - self defense never includes escalation - not ever. A pro boxer might - MIGHT - make a case for 'reflexive response' that MIGHT be taken seriously by a court... on some planet... but not a football player who is actually taught the opposite (punching on the field makes bad things happen when the refs get upset with you and take it out on your team...).

It doesn't matter what he was taught on the field, he has an angry woman charging him and a split second to react. It's not the sort of situation in which you can philosophise to yourself before acting.

[Paprika]

You cannot justify an escalation like that. Next time, try reading the whole thing.

You seem so sure I hadn't read it.

[Teallaura]

You seem so sure I hadn't read it.

Yep, because you keep acting like a jerk and jerks seldom read the whole thing. That, and your response gave it away.

What is your problem, anyway? You've been after me all morning - didn't you have your coffee yet?

[Teallaura]

No, she slapped him, he slapped her back, then he backed away. She charged him, pissed, and that's when he hit her. I don't know what she was intending when she charged, could have been another slap, could have been an eye gouge, but she never got to pull it off.

That's very different, then.

She is the one who escalated, he tried to back out, but I guess being in an elevator didn't give him much room.

Granted on the first, unclear on the second.

It doesn't matter what he was taught on the field, he has an angry woman charging him and a split second to react. It's not the sort of situation in which you can philosophise to yourself before acting.

It matters in terms of mitigation - a lot. I'm still dubious on the justification and as far as I know, he hasn't claimed that it was a knee jerk response.

[Paprika]

Yep, because you keep acting like a jerk and jerks seldom read the whole thing. That, and your response gave it away.

Given your refusal so substantiate your claim that the punch was 'intentional', and your stubborness that it must have been intentional, there was nothing of substance to address.

What is your problem, anyway? You've been after me all morning - didn't you have your coffee yet?

It would be solipsistic to assume that I'm "after" you; it's called a conversation: you reply to me, I reply to that, and so on. In addition, I've made posts in response to 5 different people in this thread. Not everything centers around you.

[Teallaura]

Given your refusal so substantiate your claim that the punch was 'intentional', and your stubborness that it must have been intentional, there was nothing of substance to address.


It would be solipsistic to assume that I'm "after" you; it's called a conversation: you reply to me, I reply to that, and so on. In addition, I've made posts in response to 5 different people in this thread. Not everything centers around you.

1) Intention is assumed from the act unless proof is offered otherwise - very basic, really.

Also, I made the claim a grand total of once and have yet to see anyone substantiate that the man in question ever claimed otherwise - if he hasn't made that defense why should I debate something that isn't factually part of the case?

2) Oh, hardly - you've been nothing but condescending and rude and I didn't give you cause for either. Grow up already.

[Catholicity]

What about a third possibility: that it was an instinctive reaction? How do you rule out this option?

It does not matter if it was "instinctive" it does not excuse a large man assaulting a small woman. Lots of things are "instinctive" Heck occasionally I REALLY get the "instinct" to call and say unspeakable words at my ex-husband especially after the latest fiasco I hear he says to my daughter but that's not really excusable is it?

[Darth Executor]

It does not matter if it was "instinctive" it does not excuse a large man assaulting a small woman.

If small women don't want to be hit they shouldn't attack people. Also, can we start using this argument whenever Israel bombs Palestinians?

[Truthseeker]

Until such time as feminism has been shamed into oblivion, women need to be disabused of the notion that they're equal to men as early and as often as possible. When this has happened, and the physical and mental inequalities have been accepted as given by high and low throughout the land, then I may listen to your feelings about fundamental equalities.

I understand from that you think liberty and justice is for males only. To that, I say, liberty and justice for ALL!

[Sea of red]

IMHO: I give women one free shot and after that, you've put yourself in a mans shoes.

Don't give me this "there's no reason to EVER hit a woman!" crap that society has bought into. I've had girlfriends that have slapped me, punched me, scratched me, spit on me, and even strike me in the manhood. They knew they could do this because they had no fear of being arrested for assault, and could have me thrown in jail should I defend myself. You can't hit and hit somebody and not seriously expect a physical reaction, no matter what the persons gender.

When I go out and hang with my fellas, I know that if I strike a guy that I will get hit back, and I will be charged with assault for starting the altercation. It should be no different with a woman. If you start things getting physical you have no right to complain with what may follow. I myself once started a fight and I got beat up pretty good, and you know what? I deserved it. I'm man enough to know I was wrong to disrespect a person like that. Instead of running to the police to have the man arrested I simply moved on and learned not push peoples buttons.

That's how you grow as person: learning from your mistakes.

It seems like women want equal rights but not equal responsibility/accountability.