Re: Michael Brown

[tabibito]

Sparky just shut down the Foud-fight thread. I'm not talking to him anymore. That one was fun!

I'm not happy either - I was waiting to see what changes he would inflict on scripture in one of the other threads.

[Cow Poke]

It now says "(File image)" below the scan, but if you miss those words or misinterpret the phrase to mean "this is the image from the official file," then the impression is that the picture is the official scan of Wilson's reported injury. And still, if the author intended to express that it was merely a generic example rather than specifically Wilson, why would he cross out the UNIV OF IOWA tagline?

I never saw it as representing Wilson's actual x-ray, just an explanation of what the injury looks like.

[Cow Poke]

He wanted him some Swisher Sweets!

Why can't we do that FISHSLAP thing in posts?

[KingsGambit]

Sparky just shut down the Foud-fight thread. I'm not talking to him anymore. That one was fun!

Debating him last year was fun; in the same way that I suppose running a marathon is fun (to use a G-rated analogy).

[Cow Poke]

My first objection was that it's senseless and tragic for an unarmed teenager to be killed.

True, so he should have behaved himself and he never would have even BEEN there.

That has not at all been "blown out of the water." Nor am I "trying to create something to complain about." Does it not perplex you that a video that seems to feature Wilson appears to be at odds with the police report, or that seer's source appears to be intentionally misleading?

how come YOU seem to be the only one seeing misleading in there --- I saw NOTHING that said that was Wilson's x-ray -- and I looked on the picture itself to try to FIND anywhere it said "wilson", or a date or anything that would indicate it was his. I had to assume, logically, it was "representative" of the type of injury.

[Zymologist]

My first objection was that it's senseless and tragic for an unarmed teenager to be killed. That has not at all been "blown out of the water." Nor am I "trying to create something to complain about." Does it not perplex you that a video that seems to feature Wilson appears to be at odds with the police report, or that seer's source appears to be intentionally misleading?

I don't want to pile on, but you have repeated "unarmed" a lot. If he had been in possession of a weapon, would that have changed anything, in your opinion?

[rogue06]

Why can't we do that FISHSLAP thing in posts?

I don't know, why can't you?

[Cow Poke]

I don't know, why can't you?

oh

[Jedidiah]

My first objection was that it's senseless and tragic for an unarmed teenager to be killed. That has not at all been "blown out of the water." Nor am I "trying to create something to complain about." Does it not perplex you that a video that seems to feature Wilson appears to be at odds with the police report, or that seer's source appears to be intentionally misleading?

What is really tragic is the fact that such a young guy opted to turn to petty crime to make a living in the first place. That ended up killing him. There are lots of people killed tragically every day. Why is is this one being used to make so much trouble?

And no, I do not feel any need to try from the other side of the computer screen to question what could be anything. I will wait and see what facts turn up. Just as I did in the first place. You might try that too.

[fm93]

:dazed: Wait, WHAT?! Now things might be even more confusing.

Mike Brown appears to have paid for those cigars

Ferguson police’s attempts to demonize Michael Brown, the unarmed African-American teen killed by Officer Darren Wilson, may have hit a small snag,” reports Crooks and Liars. “The very video they released at the same time as they identified Wilson as the officer responsible for shooting Brown six times, including twice in the head, may show the opposite of what they intended. Supposedly, the video shows Brown robbing the store, taking a box of cigars. However, the attorney for Ferguson Market says that it was not anyone from the store who called police to report a robbery. In fact, a customer called to report what he viewed as a robbery."

"How, then, did police get the tape? According to St. Louis News, ‘The attorney said, during the course of Ferguson (PD)’s investigation, they came to the store and asked for to review the tape.” In other words, the tape was not viewed by police until after Michael Brown was dead in the street.

"In their fervent effort to cast Brown in a negative light, they missed that the video seems to show Brown paying for the Swisher Sweets.

"While it is difficult to be 100 percent certain, the video appears to show Brown purchasing some cigars but lacking the money for the amount he wished to buy. Brown seems to purchase some cigarillos, pay for them, attempt to buy more, then replace the ones he could not afford.

"The confrontation between Brown and the clerk may have been because Brown impatiently reached across the counter. Perhaps it was wrong for Brown to shove the employee – it is impossible to know what words were exchanged – but this footage seems to exonerate him. It is important to note that Brown only shoved the clerk after he put his hands on him.

I'm so bewildered now. Generally I'm wary of reports from blatantly political websites, but at 0:32 in the video, it does indeed look like the clerk takes a wad of cash on the counter. If this is actually true--that Brown paid and therefore didn't commit a robbery--then much of the narrative that we thought we knew is thrown into question.

[Cow Poke]

:dazed: Wait, WHAT?! Now things might be even more confusing.

Mike Brown appears to have paid for those cigars

His buddy admitted they stole the cigars -- a strong arm robbery.

Source: KSDK

FERGUSON, Mo. (AP) - The friend who was with Michael Brown when he was shot and killed by a police officer near St. Louis over the weekend is reportedly confirming that he and Brown had taken part in the theft of cigars from a convenience store that day.

That word comes from the attorney for Dorian Johnson, speaking to MSNBC. Police in Ferguson had earlier announced that Brown was suspected of taking cigars from the convenience store in what was described as a "strong-arm robbery."

© Copyright Original Source

Then there's the little incident where Brown confronts the clerk, starts to leave, then turns back to intimidate him --- kinda the same conduct Wilson claimed.

[robrecht]

We don't know all the details, but it seems likely that Michael Brown is responsible for his own death, and that is indeed tragic. But I don't think we should let that judgment of this incident blind us to the problems of racial inequality in our country and communities. There are no easy solutions, but this is something that needs to be effectively addressed.

[fm93]

True, so he should have behaved himself and he never would have even BEEN there.

But plenty of other teenagers commit crimes and put themselves into bad situations and are not killed for it. Not to mention the possibility that he might not have actually committed a crime at all, if the argument cited in my last post is accurate.

how come YOU seem to be the only one seeing misleading in there --- I saw NOTHING that said that was Wilson's x-ray -- and I looked on the picture itself to try to FIND anywhere it said "wilson", or a date or anything that would indicate it was his. I had to assume, logically, it was "representative" of the type of injury.

People in our society read from top to bottom, so when an article says "Local St. Louis sources said Wilson suffered an 'orbital blowout fracture to the eye socket.' This comes from a source within the Prosecuting Attorney’s office and confirmed by the St. Louis County Police" and then features a picture of a scan directly below that, the first thought that comes to mind is "This is the scan that he was talking about in the previous sentence." The author doesn't help his cause by blurring out the tagline.

I don't want to pile on, but you have repeated "unarmed" a lot. If he had been in possession of a weapon, would that have changed anything, in your opinion?

Absolutely. It would have changed everything. If you're facing someone who possesses a deadly weapon that can kill people from a distance, you are entirely justified in shooting if he doesn't drop the weapon. While there are non-lethal options that could theoretically be exercised in regard to an unarmed suspect (such as tasing him to subdue him--at least wounding him rather than killing him), you don't have that option with someone who possesses a gun. He could still shoot and instantly kill you even if you use an injuring tactic.

What is really tragic is the fact that such a young guy opted to turn to petty crime to make a living in the first place. That ended up killing him. There are lots of people killed tragically every day. Why is is this one being used to make so much trouble?

Because generally when people commit petty crimes, it does not and should not result in their being killed--especially by a police officer.

[Darth Executor]

I saw that before but it was so dumb I didn't think it was worth nothing. The clerk picks up one of the boxes at 0:32. You can tell it's not money because he picks it up like a box from the sides and it stays rigid. It looks like he grabs a bunch of cigarette boxes, drops one at 0:19, then another at 0:21, puts one back (probably telling the clerk he was just looking at them), then proceeds to pick up the ones he dropped. Presumably the clerk catches on and grabs Brown who then shoves him out of the way and leaves. At no point in the video do I see him pull out any money.

[Cow Poke]

We don't know all the details, but it seems likely that Michael Brown is responsible for his own death, and that is indeed tragic. But I don't think we should let that judgment of this incident blind us to the problems of racial inequality in our country and communities. There are no easy solutions, but this is something that needs to be effectively addressed.

Agreed, but I think black leadership could do a whole lot more on this. Guys like Al Sharpton have a vested interest in aggravating, not solving, this issue. Both Obama and Holder SHOULD have appealed for calm, and "let's wait for the FACTS before we jump to conclusions", but they, in my opinion, have only inflamed this problem.

It should also be noted that HALF of all murders in the united states are blacks, and the VAST MAJORITY of those murders are committed by blacks. So why is this ONE death so more important than the 6,000 to 7,000 blacks who are murdered each year by blacks?