secret forces in oregon cities, as in DC

[Cow Poke]

No CP, you've engage in your usual litany of ad hominem, poisoning the conversation and then trying to turn that into yet more reason for yet more ad hom.

No, Jim - I showed where the basis of your latest OrangeManBad thread is way off the mark and full of drama, false statements and nuttery. Nuttier than Aunt Betty after drinking all that hair tonic.

It's really all you appear to know how to do, call people names and declare what they've said 'Horsey poo'. If you gave a rat's read end about having a reasoned conversation, you'd have given that up years ago.

You are such a hypocrite. Let's look at your OrangeManBad OP again....

================================================== ========

Starts off with your typical "sky is falling" routine....

This is beyond the pale - and really quite unnerving.

[Really spooky musing needs to be here]

We do not do this sort of thing in the US, and yet, Trump is doing it.

OrangeManBad

The US attorney in Oregon has launched an investigation.

As he is entitled to do, but that does not mean anybody broke any laws or did anything illegal.

But, hey, let's spice it up by throwing some gratuitous supermarket tabloid language in there...

These unidentified

The are federal agents IN UNIFORM with agency shoulder patches clearly visible.

(presumably legitimate) law enforcement agents

Federal agents - without question.

have been seen arresting peaceful protestors and hauling them off in SUV's.

How do you know who the "peaceful protesters" are, and who the violent ones are?
How do you know that a "peaceful protester" weren't engaged in violence just prior?
Who are YOU to determine who is who.

And do NOT try to tell me that if these "peaceful protesters" came to your house and did what they did in Portland, that wouldn't be calling the police and trying to protect your own property.
These were FEDERAL AGENTS responding to attacks on a FEDERAL BUILDING where the local authorities had allowed things to get WAY out of control.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/18/us/po...ies/index.html

So this is not just a strange anomalous thing that showed up in DC during the Floyd protests. This is some sort of 'force' that Trump has created

Trump did NOT create the Department of Homeland Security

and is deploying wherever he thinks it is 'appropriate'.

No, they are FEDERAL AGENTS responding to a FEDERAL PROBLEM.

They are not uniformed,

Absolutely NUTSO false, as anybody can see simply by looking at the pictures.

they do not identify themselves.

They have POLICE in big block letters, many of them on front AND back of their UNIFORMS.

And, then, back to more OrangeManBad hysteria....

I truly hope those posting here in favor of Trump can recognize the very real and present danger of secret,

NOT secret

heavily armed

They are FEDERAL AGENTS, you want maybe they should have squirt guns?

and unidentified forces

Another FALSE statement --- you just can't help yourself!

Then, more OrangeManBad.....

deployed at the behest of the president against the wishes of state governments across the United States.

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, GRAB YOUR CHILDREN, they're EVERYWHERE, and.... and... black helicopters......

This is by far the CRAPPIEST OP I've ever seen on Tweb.

[oxmixmudd]

Well, at least you acknowledge that they're violent and lawless. Others here are so nutso that they refer to them as "peaceful protesters".

If any of those "peaceful protesters" did to the homes of one of these liberal loonies what they did to the federal courthouse, the liberal loony would be screaming bloody murder.

The assumption on your part is that some sizable portion of the protesters are the ones doing the defacing - when in reality most of the protests across the nation have been peaceful. What happens in general is that untoward forces from both left and right come in an incite violence.

So you are active on two fronts: 1) maligning the majority based on the bad actions of the minority. 2) supporting the use of special forces aligned with the will of the president rather than the US constitution when other options are available that do not give the president access to a 'special secretive police force'.

[Leonhard]

I am concerned Cow Poke about the reports that they're just grabbing people seemingly at random, they might not be, they might be targeting specific individuals. However it doesn't seem clear right now to me.

[Cow Poke]

The assumption on your part is that some sizable portion of the protesters are the ones doing the defacing -

I made no such assumption at all.

when in reality most of the protests across the nation have been peaceful.

Not when it comes to this "occupy" crap.

What happens in general is that untoward forces from both left and right come in an incite violence.

"untoward forces"?

So you are active on two fronts: 1) maligning the majority based on the bad actions of the minority.

False.

2) supporting the use of special forces

False. Just pointing out the insane nuttery of your OP --- if these FEDERAL AGENTS are abusing their power, I'm absolutely against that.

Get ready for some more OrangeManBAd....

aligned with the will of the president

You're full of crap.

rather than the US constitution

What has happened that is unconstitutional? I posted on that, also, but you ignored that in favor of more OrangeManBad nonsense.

when other options are available

You mean, instead of calling FEDERAL AGENTS who you complain are "heavily armed", you want to bring in the ARMY which is HEAVILIER* armed?

that do not give the president access to a 'special secretive police force'.

FEDERAL agents who are legitimately and constitutionally under his direction. And they're no more "secret" than your hatred for Trump.

[Cow Poke]

I am concerned Cow Poke about the reports that they're just grabbing people seemingly at random,

If that were true, I'd absolutely be against it. No ifs, ands or buts.

But, going WAY back to my day, I actually had classes in crowd control and riot management.
You observe the group, often using PLAIN CLOTHES personnel, to determine who the 'leaders' are.
These will OFTEN be people who are not in the immediate vicinity, but have a tactical view of the situation.
It's not terribly difficult to observe that there are individuals to whom others tend to 'report to' or 'get direction from'.

I suspect - but DO NOT KNOW - that there has been some intelligence gathering on who the instigators are, and THOSE individuals get "snatched up" before they can disappear into the crowd, or give further direction to the violent members.

That's what happens a LOT in these situations.

they might not be, they might be targeting specific individuals.

Absolutely agreed.

However it doesn't seem clear right now to me.

And, quite honestly, it wouldn't seem clear - as there is this whole thing of "a camera everywhere", and the violence has to be done, but 'the world' has to see "peaceful protesters" when the cops move in.

It's a mess - but the Federal agents did not start this, and the local authorities did not prevent or control it.

[oxmixmudd]

No, Jim - I showed where the basis of your latest OrangeManBad thread is way off the mark and full of drama, false statements and nuttery. Nuttier than Aunt Betty after drinking all that hair tonic.

No you haven't.

Proving my point, which is all you know how to do is hurl ad hom ...

You are such a hypocrite. Let's look at your OrangeManBad OP again....

and again. It's what you do, who you are.

================================================== ========

Starts off with your typical "sky is falling" routine....



[Really spooky musing needs to be here]



OrangeManBad

And there his is a gain. ad hom, ad hom, ad hom. It's all you know to do.

woops - oh look he seems to have tired of mockery and ad hom, lets see how that goes ....

As he is entitled to do, but that does not mean anybody broke any laws or did anything illegal.

But, hey, let's spice it up by throwing some gratuitous supermarket tabloid language in there...

Nope, still ad hom - nothing yet ...

The are federal agents IN UNIFORM with agency shoulder patches clearly visible.

I see. And how does that mitigate unknown to the public, don't announce who they are, and violating the basic rights of people as seen in the video such as hauling people off without cause. The man was never charged. They had nothing on him at all. They just grabbed him. And as you can see in the video, the never said a word.

Federal agents - without question.

So? Federal agents can commit crimes too. If they are not there on a legitimate basis, if they are not acting in submission the the US constitution, they are illegal. If the basis they are there is hidden, then they are a type of secret force. If the man calling the shots is the president, then they are a secret force of the presidents. It doesn't matter if he's just got a crony he appointed that was never vetted by the senate telling these men to do what trump wants them to do, they are still a special police force directed by the president acting at his behalf. Unknown or secretive police forces showing up unannounced and taking action to suppress dissidents is Putin's realm, China's realm. not the US.

How do you know who the "peaceful protesters" are, and who the violent ones are?

How do you? I at least know people that have participated in the protests and know that most of them are just normal people engaging in peaceful protests against racism in the police.

How do you know that a "peaceful protester" weren't engaged in violence just prior?

How do you know they were not? (Innocent until proven guilty is out too I guess)

Who are YOU to determine who is who.

And who are you. At least I'm going with the actual fact that most are peaceful and that people are innocent till proven guilty, not the other way 'round.

As for the person in the video - he was not charged. They had nothing on him. Nothing at all.

And do NOT try to tell me that if these "peaceful protesters" came to your house and did what they did in Portland, that wouldn't be calling the police and trying to protect your own property.
These were FEDERAL AGENTS responding to attacks on a FEDERAL BUILDING where the local authorities had allowed things to get WAY out of control.

Sure I would. The difference is that when the police showed up at my house there would be sirens blaring, lights flashing, and everyone would know exactly who they were, why they were there, and what authority that were acting under.

Trump did NOT create the Department of Homeland Security

No - he just co-opted it to make it his personal rogue police force.

No, they are FEDERAL AGENTS responding to a FEDERAL PROBLEM.

Un announced forces acting to fulfill the personal wishes of the president without oversight or public understanding of their role, purpose, and acting authority (at least when this all began).

Absolutely NUTSO false, as anybody can see simply by looking at the pictures.



They have POLICE in big block letters, many of them on front AND back of their UNIFORMS.

And, then, back to more OrangeManBad hysteria....



NOT secret



They are FEDERAL AGENTS, you want maybe they should have squirt guns?



Another FALSE statement --- you just can't help yourself!

Then, more OrangeManBad.....



Yes, ladies and gentlemen, GRAB YOUR CHILDREN, they're EVERYWHERE, and.... and... black helicopters......

This is by far the CRAPPIEST OP I've ever seen on Tweb.

we'll see CP. They mysteriously appeared in DC, now they are in portland. Their purpose is to quell unrest apparently without regard to the rights of the protesters and they have been indiscriminate in their targeting. They do not appear to act in concert with local authorities, they do not announce themselves, they do not respect local laws regarding munitions for use in crowd control and they apparently do not need to leave any public records of those they arrest without cause.

You just keep pretending this is all a nothing - but I'd suggest you need a lobster for your avatar too.

[Cow Poke]

No you haven't.

Yes, I have --- then you just go into crybaby WAAANNNNNhhhhhhh CP called me names crap.
Your OP is full of absolute tabloid GARBAGE.

You need a lobster for your avatar too.

And you need yours to be Chicken Little.

[Cow Poke]

Not FoxNews, but CNN.... I'll highlight some parts I'll address...

Several protesters arrested in Portland after police say they blocked buildings and threw projectiles

Several demonstrators were arrested in Oregon's largest city early Saturday following the latest of a series of downtown protests, with Portland authorities alleging suspects blocked exits of government buildings and launched fireworks and projectiles.

Note, this is the "Portland authorities" --- the ones who ALLEGEDLY don't want the Federal Police there, and who have not managed to control this on their own.
These "peaceful protesters" that the lefties love to defend, are, oddly enough, acting like anarchists.

Protesters -- as they have often in the last seven weeks -- rallied around the federal courthouse and county justice center in downtown Portland Friday night and early Saturday.
Portland demonstrators generally have been protesting racial inequality and police brutality for about seven weeks after the death in Minneapolis of George Floyd. But Friday night's protest also came amid a public uproar and lawsuits over federal officers arresting demonstrators in recent days.

The protest started with about 200 people blocking traffic outside the county justice center. But some took metal fencing from nearby parks and used them to barricade exterior doors of the justice center and a federal courthouse, Portland police said.

So, WHO said they were barricading the doors of the FEDERAL courthouse? It was the PORTLAND POLICE.

Parts of this image have been blurred by CNN to obstruct profanity. Protesters holding shields line up in the street opposite the Edith Green Wendell Wyatt federal building in Portland early Saturday.

And WHY would CNN have to "blur" the image? Because there's all kinds of graffiti calling for KILLING COPS and "[F-bomb] - the police".

rior.jpg

THESE are the "peaceful protesters" that are being defended by the loony left, for no other reason than OrangeManBad, while calling the Federal Police "BOZOs".

[Cow Poke]

So, more about these poor "peaceful protesters" that OX loves to defend.....

Portland, Oregon, police declare Saturday gathering a riot after another night of protest, unrest

Note, this s the Portland Police....

Portland, Oregon, police declared a gathering Saturday night a riot after hundreds of demonstrators who have been protesting in the city since the death of George Floyd broke into a building and set it ablaze and started dumpster fires.

The protesters broke into the Portland Police Association at around 10:45 p.m. Saturday, police said, and "ignited a fire inside." That prompted police to declare the event a riot "due to the violent conduct of the large group creating a grave risk of public alarm." The fire inside the Portland Police Association building was put out a short time later.

"As the crowd was dispersed, several people in the crowd were arrested and officers were able to extinguish the fire," Portland Police said Sunday in a statement. "Portland Police did not use any CS gas," a commonly used term for tear gas.

However, several reporters and bystanders shared photos and videos on social media that they said show police using tear gas to help clear the area.

Earlier Saturday night, a different group of demonstrators gathered by the Portland Police Bureau's North Precinct and "taunted officers ... tampered with gates, broke patrol vehicle windows, and vandalized patrol vehicles," police said.

After protesters regrouped later at an intersection in North Portland, police said they tried to move the crowd south, when some "threw rocks, gopher gassers, and launched paint filled balloons at officers." Police said some officers were injured but did not provide specific details.

This thing just goes on and on. Why? Because the LOONY LEFT excuses it, and also excuse the fact that LOONY LEFT mayor and governor have allowed this to roll on and on and on.

The LOON LEFT keeps pretending these are "peaceful protesters" instead of the anarchists they are.
So, why do these anarchists feel comfortable breaking into patrol cars, throwing rocks at cops, and burning buildings?
Because the LOONY LEFT keeps holding them up as "peaceful protesters".

[oxmixmudd]

Yes, I have --- then you just go into crybaby WAAANNNNNhhhhhhh CP called me names crap.
Your OP is full of absolute tabloid GARBAGE.



And you need yours to be Chicken Little.

You're getting worse. It looks like you have no self-control at this point.

[oxmixmudd]

So, more about these poor "peaceful protesters" that OX loves to defend.....

Portland, Oregon, police declare Saturday gathering a riot after another night of protest, unrest

Note, this s the Portland Police....

Portland, Oregon, police declared a gathering Saturday night a riot after hundreds of demonstrators who have been protesting in the city since the death of George Floyd broke into a building and set it ablaze and started dumpster fires.

The protesters broke into the Portland Police Association at around 10:45 p.m. Saturday, police said, and "ignited a fire inside." That prompted police to declare the event a riot "due to the violent conduct of the large group creating a grave risk of public alarm." The fire inside the Portland Police Association building was put out a short time later.

"As the crowd was dispersed, several people in the crowd were arrested and officers were able to extinguish the fire," Portland Police said Sunday in a statement. "Portland Police did not use any CS gas," a commonly used term for tear gas.

However, several reporters and bystanders shared photos and videos on social media that they said show police using tear gas to help clear the area.

Earlier Saturday night, a different group of demonstrators gathered by the Portland Police Bureau's North Precinct and "taunted officers ... tampered with gates, broke patrol vehicle windows, and vandalized patrol vehicles," police said.

After protesters regrouped later at an intersection in North Portland, police said they tried to move the crowd south, when some "threw rocks, gopher gassers, and launched paint filled balloons at officers." Police said some officers were injured but did not provide specific details.

This thing just goes on and on. Why? Because the LOONY LEFT excuses it, and also excuse the fact that LOONY LEFT mayor and governor have allowed this to roll on and on and on.

The LOON LEFT keeps pretending these are "peaceful protesters" instead of the anarchists they are.
So, why do these anarchists feel comfortable breaking into patrol cars, throwing rocks at cops, and burning buildings?
Because the LOONY LEFT keeps holding them up as "peaceful protesters".

And none of this warrants or justifies Trump turning DHS into a national police force. These men are dressed as military. When we go into other countries, to train them and help them create law and order, we make sure they understand you do NOT militarize police. They have uniforms badges, the are easily identified as police, not military. Police, national guard are not under the control of the president for a reason. We are all, from the president to the local janitor, are citizens of the same country and subject to the rule of law. And the separation of powers that is critical to a stable nation under the rule of law is that enforcement of the law of the land is NOT a power the president retains. This pseudo national police force he has created out of the DHS is contrary to all of that. It is a very, very dangerous move.

He has perverted the department of justice and used it to protect his friends from the rule of law, and now he is gradually building a national police force out of DHS.

This cannot be allowed, and you will regret your defense of it, I assure you. You have thumbed your nose at some of the most critical and important lessons of history. You have thumbed your nose at wisdom. It is impossible to do that over and over and over and not pay dearly for it.

If we dont stop this, we will all pay dearly for it.

[Catholicity]

You're getting worse. It looks like you have no self-control at this point.

I can't believe I'm about to say this, but I think you are judging CP's motives as the worst. My interactions with CP over the years have taught me that his motives are really good. I think from everything I can read, he's asking you to consider both sides, which you aren't really willing to do. I think you are fighting the wrong person.

[rogue06]

nancy-pelosi-confused-why-unmarked-police-cars-domestic-terrorists.jpg

[Leonhard]

If that were true, I'd absolutely be against it. No ifs, ands or buts.

But, going WAY back to my day, I actually had classes in crowd control and riot management.
You observe the group, often using PLAIN CLOTHES personnel, to determine who the 'leaders' are.
These will OFTEN be people who are not in the immediate vicinity, but have a tactical view of the situation.
It's not terribly difficult to observe that there are individuals to whom others tend to 'report to' or 'get direction from'.

I suspect - but DO NOT KNOW - that there has been some intelligence gathering on who the instigators are, and THOSE individuals get "snatched up" before they can disappear into the crowd, or give further direction to the violent members.

That's what happens a LOT in these situations.

I'm okay with them stopping leaders of the instigators of the violence. That is completely fair game, but there's some odd reports floating around. It's still not quite clear what is going on, but as far as I know don't police have to announce themselves to you, tell you that you're under arrest, why you're under arrest, etc... if they're doing that I'm okay with it. If they're not... eh, it just seems dicy. I mean couldn't the people then just sue the police into oblivion on account of wrongful arrrest if a protestor captured it on tape?

Absolutely agreed.

Yeah.

And, quite honestly, it wouldn't seem clear - as there is this whole thing of "a camera everywhere", and the violence has to be done, but 'the world' has to see "peaceful protesters" when the cops move in.

It's a mess - but the Federal agents did not start this, and the local authorities did not prevent or control it.

It's fair game to stop the violent protestors, but there's been a lot of recordings of the police massively overstepping the bounds, and there's a lot of suspicion that entirely peaceful protests elsewhere are just being shut down by being labelled as riots. I mean when the curfew magically changed on some protestors, and a crowd with pastors in it was dispersed with tear gas, and similar instances happens that just adds to the terrible optics here.

Have the "police" (I'm using quote marks because I don't know which department it is), made any statement? What they're doing? Who they're targetting? Who they've arrested and why? Etc?

Could do with some transparency.

[Leonhard]

I mean there's plenty of gross stories of police just sticking their foot in their mouthes in how they've handled these protests. https://www.metroweekly.com/2020/06/...to-protesters/

I posted a video compilation of some of the worst examples as well, like the one where a group National Guards spotted some people standing on their own porch and started shouting at them for two or three seconds and then shouted "LIGHT EM UP" and began firing at them. Or marches of officers beating down old women holding up cardboard signs. Or marching in on and beating up line of protestors because one of them got offended by an insult.

How is all of that going to inspire law and order?