Originally posted by seer
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
Civics 101 Guidelines
Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less
Conservative values/principles
Collapse
X
-
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
-
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostYour opinion is duly noted. I disagree with your assessment and find the arguments you and Seer have put forward to be lacking - for the reasons I have already cited.
You seem to think these two possibilities are mutually exclusive. That is a flawed premise.
What does this have to do with systemic racism?
Again - not mutually exclusive. And you should try having a conversation with these folks. Many of them report exactly what I (and BLM) have been saying. The one black Senator in the Republican party has been quite vocal about how he is treated even within the capital building, and how it differs from how his colleagues are treated.
And yet is is continually shown to be true - both anecdotally and with solid data. Turning a blind eye to it doesn't make it go away.
The hand-wave meme is truly old and tired - but I recognize why ya'll feel a need to perpetuate it. After all, its easier than actually tackling the arguments. It's ironic, actually. What the hyperbole reflects does not change that it is hyperbole and, almost by definition, untrue. As for division - the division is already there. Just because people don't want to hear about the reality of systemic/implicit racism doesn't mean it should not be highlighted and challenged. And wherever it is found, it should be rooted out.
Turning your back on the facts, Sean, doesn't make them go away. Everywhere we turn we see evidence of systemic racism. We saw it in AirBnB. We saw it in Uber and Lyft. We see it in the sentencing data for criminal offenses. We've seen it in how resumes are handled/processed. We get a constant stream of anecdotal evidence from the black community about what life is like as a black person. There are piles and piles of data pointing to the existence of this reality. And it simply makes common sense. We are only a couple generations away from the civil rights era, only a few more from Jim Crow, and just a few more from the Civil War. Before that stretches an almost 400 year history of black slavery in the U.S. Can anyone seriously believe that the effects of over 500 years of racism embedded in everything from our Constitution to our economic practices and our daily habits is going to be erased in a handful of decades?
Taking a stand against it and insisting on change is the ethical thing to do. It is why I support BLM and actively participate in their work.
Comment
-
I don't think that crime has to do with poverty either. I think it has more to do with family life and location. There is less crime among poor people both black and white in rural areas and where the nuclear family remains intact. More crime in inner cities among both black and whites, in slums, and places where gangs are, and in families where a father is not present.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sparko View Post...and in families where a father is not present.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sparko View PostI don't think that crime has to do with poverty either.
I think it has more to do with family life and location. There is less crime among poor people both black and white in rural areas and where the nuclear family remains intact.
More crime in inner cities among both black and whites, in slums, and places where gangs are, and in families where a father is not present.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
Comment
-
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostMost crime, including violent crime, is intraracial rather than interracial. How would Jim Crow have affected that?
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostIn fact, I'll posit that the Democrats who supported Jim Crow laws would be quite pleased if blacks were killing each other at the rates we see today. Not only would they not lift a finger to stop it they would likely cheer it on.
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostYour answer makes about as much sense as AOC's claim that violent crime is spiking because the economy is forcing people to shoplift bread to feed their families. IOW, none whatsoever.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sparko View PostYes. The biggest causes of crime are greed (money, things, power) and anger.
There's the "thrill" of the crime, as well.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostBut that was after your initial claim that I debunked.
Originally posted by seer View PostYep you finally got there! I specifically said it was not about skin color.
Originally posted by seer View PostI gave you the stats. You just hand wave. And I'm not arguing that there is never racism by police, but that systemic police racism is a lie. For instance last year about 10 unarmed black men were killed by police, twice as many whites were killed. Yes that is a higher percentage for blacks, but the higher crime rates more than account for that.
Originally posted by seer View PostIn the WSJ link you can read most of the first paragraph, and see the author's name. It is the same article and the piece and the referenced studies undermines your false claim of systemic police racism.
Originally posted by seer View PostNonsense, you can believe what you want - you have no argument for systemic police racism...
Originally posted by seer View PostWhat are you talking about? They only had one year where they included past offences, but never included non-violent offences. Things like drug trafficking, thief, larceny, etc.. were never included and certainly would be things taken into consideration.
Originally posted by seer View PostSo use your study where they never controlled for non-violent criminal history.
Originally posted by seer View PostLiberal western democracies. Like for like.
El Salvador: presidential representative democracy
Jamaica: Parliamentary democracy
Honduras: presidential representative democratic republic
Belize: constitutional monarchy and parliament (democracy is based on the Westminster model, part of the commonwealth of nations)
South Africa: (technically an eastern country) - parliamentary representative democratic republic
Lesotho: parliamentary representative democratic constitutional monarchy
Brazil: federal presidential constitutional republic, based on a representative democracy
I could continue...but I think you might see the problem.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostWhere have you seen recent antisemitic comments since his 06 apology? Be specific please.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
Originally posted by seanD View PostWhat solid data is that? Show it. Be specific.
And then, once arrested, black perpetrators will experience significantly harsher sentencing and significantly lesser "deals" than white perpetrators arrested for a similar crime.
Originally posted by seanD View PostYou were just shown the data about blacks and violent crime.
Originally posted by seanD View PostThen, after you were corrected about consolidating nonviolent crime with violent crime, you then tried to blame that on poverty.
Originally posted by seanD View PostI also described to you from my own experience (which is current to this day) that the issue is within the black community and is a self-infliction.
Originally posted by seanD View PostWhere's your anecdotal evidence showing where I'm wrong.
Originally posted by seanD View PostYou described a situation involving your son which may or mat not have been an incident of racism.
Originally posted by seanD View PostEven if it was, that only proves you have racist neighbors. Systemic racism is not what an incident like that makes.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sparko View PostI don't think that crime has to do with poverty either. I think it has more to do with family life and location. There is less crime among poor people both black and white in rural areas and where the nuclear family remains intact. More crime in inner cities among both black and whites, in slums, and places where gangs are, and in families where a father is not present.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostYou do like to claim the "presumptive win," Seer. You haven't debunked squat. If you had, my views would change accordingly.
And yet you continually make racist statements like, "black people are more violent."
You have yet to respond to the data I gave you, Seer. You are busily waving the flag of comparative stats about how many get arrested and how many crimes are committed without addressing the USSC findings.
I can't examine references you don't provide, Seer.
Ignoring the data doesn't make it go away...
The captured article, here you go: http://archive.is/OXbjA
In 2019 police officers fatally shot 1,004 people, most of whom were armed or otherwise dangerous. African-Americans were about a quarter of those killed by cops last year (235), a ratio that has remained stable since 2015. That share of black victims is less than what the black crime rate would predict, since police shootings are a function of how often officers encounter armed and violent suspects. In 2018, the latest year for which such data have been published, African-Americans made up 53% of known homicide offenders in the U.S. and commit about 60% of robberies, though they are 13% of the population..
The latest in a series of studies undercutting the claim of systemic police bias was published in August 2019 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
A 2015 Justice Department analysis of the Philadelphia Police Department found that white police officers were less likely than black or Hispanic officers to shoot unarmed black suspects. Research by Harvard economist Roland G. Fryer Jr. also found no evidence of racial discrimination in shootings. Any evidence to the contrary fails to take into account crime rates and civilian behavior before and during interactions with police.Last edited by seer; 07-14-2020, 02:08 PM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostHe was just accused of yet another antisemitic tirade by Winona Ryder. He denies it, of course. Sorry - but his denial rings hollow.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by Cow Poke, Today, 12:53 PM
|
0 responses
40 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Sam
Today, 01:07 PM
|
||
Started by Diogenes, Yesterday, 08:57 PM
|
2 responses
110 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by eider
Today, 12:08 AM
|
||
Started by carpedm9587, Yesterday, 11:25 AM
|
22 responses
174 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Ronson
Yesterday, 06:27 PM
|
||
Started by seer, Yesterday, 10:38 AM
|
14 responses
70 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by seer
Yesterday, 03:43 PM
|
||
Started by CivilDiscourse, 06-13-2024, 09:49 AM
|
6 responses
69 views
1 like
|
Last Post
by Diogenes
Yesterday, 10:26 AM
|
Comment