COVID deaths still declining

[Mountain Man]

I think their fears are well justified, given how hard you and your compadres have worked to misinterpret data so far.

Right.

According to The New York Times, "The agency has been reluctant to make those figures public, the official said, because they might be misinterpreted as the vaccines being ineffective.

And from one of my favorite sources that presents in-depth analysis of current events:

The CDC basically says they do not want to release the data because they are worried people will talk about the data, and not the official CDC interpretation of the data. So, the CDC says, trust us… we’ve looked at the data… it says good things, promise.

[...]

If the vaccines are effective, they cannot be misinterpreted as being ineffective. However, if the data shows the vaccines are ineffective, which at this point almost everyone admits they are, then the question becomes what were all of the mandates about?

The CDC has become yet another institution, amid a network of institutions, that has collapsed itself under the weight of pushing political ideology as the primary mission. Entrenched ideological political bureaucrats being exposed in the system is the brilliant legacy of Donald J Trump.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com...talk-about-it/

[rogue06]

Yeah, that would be horrible, IF the information available at the time was sufficient to support a more accurate estimate.


The difference with COVID is that the CDC is notified of any deaths where COVID is listed as a cause of death on the death certificate. That's not the case with the flu.

Don't forget, in some cases the government had monetarily incentivized positive diagnoses, such as when coronavirus relief legislation created a 20% premium, or add-on, for taking care of Medicare patients diagnosed with it.

[Mountain Man]

Don't forget, in some cases the government had monetarily incentivized positive diagnoses, such as when coronavirus relief legislation created a 20% premium, or add-on, for taking care of Medicare patients diagnosed with it.

That was right around the same time that Birx instituted the "a guess is as good as a test" policy, where even if it was merely suspected that an individual had the China flu, it was considered a positive diagnosis.

[oxmixmudd]

Don't forget, in some cases the government had monetarily incentivized positive diagnoses, such as when coronavirus relief legislation created a 20% premium, or add-on, for taking care of Medicare patients diagnosed with it.

This is entire story line ( that covid deaths are higher because hospitals were paid to diagnose it ) is just so much balony. Lying about cause of death for gain is not some trivial act, and any doctor convicted of it could lose their medical license. What was done, pure and simple, and is done in other cases where ability to pay is a problem, is that hospitals received compensation for patients they had to treat due to covid. This is the government making it possible for hospitals to remain solvent or at least close to solvent as they were overwhelmed by covid patients needing critical care and many of them dying.

I guess you'd rather the hospitals just close their doors during the pandemic?

[oxmixmudd]

That was right around the same time that Birx instituted the "a guess is as good as a test" policy, where even if it was merely suspected that an individual had the China flu, it was considered a positive diagnosis.

Hogwash. The issue at the time was underdiagnosis when covid was rampant, and guidelines were adjusted accordingly. And you want to complain the CDC is unjustified being concerned about the antivax misinformation machine perverting cdc vaccine data what are my last two posts but counters to misinformation about covid and medical policies that the ignorant have distorted and cast as conspiracies!

[Mountain Man]

Hogwash. The issue at the time was underdiagnosis when covid was rampant, and guidelines were adjusted accordingly. And you want to complain the CDC is unjustified being concerned about the antivax misinformation machine perverting cdc vaccine data what are my last two posts but counters to misinformation about covid and medical policies that the ignorant have distorted and cast as conspiracies!

You seem to have forgotten that the CDC quietly admitted that they had grossly exaggerated the China flu death count, and that over 90% of deaths attributed to the China flu actually had other causes. So we have good reason to not believe them when they say, "The vaccine data only shows good things. Trust us."

[Roy]

You seem to have forgotten that the CDC quietly admitted that they had grossly exaggerated the China flu death count, and that over 90% of deaths attributed to the China flu actually had other causes.

That over 90% of US COVID deaths involved co-morbidities such as asthma, high blood pressure or obesity, is true.

That over 90% of US COVID deaths "actually had other causes" is not true.

[Mountain Man]

That over 90% of US COVID deaths involved co-morbidities such as asthma, high blood pressure or obesity, is true.
That over 90% of US COVID deaths "actually had other causes" is not true.

Dying from a comorbidity would be considered a different cause of death, dummy.

[Stoic]

That over 90% of US COVID deaths involved co-morbidities such as asthma, high blood pressure or obesity, is true.

No, not even that is true. Over 90% of US COVID deaths had at least one other cause listed on the death certificate. But nobody ever really dies of COVID alone. They die of respiratory failure, or pneumonia, or heart failure, etc, CAUSED by COVID.

According to the CDC, those death certificates that didn't show any other cause were due to a lack of detail listed.

That over 90% of US COVID deaths "actually had other causes" is not true.

In about 90% of the cases, COVID was the underlying cause of death, meaning the patient would not have died if he hadn't had COVID.

In the other 10%, COVID was listed as a contributing cause, meaning the patient would have lived longer if he hadn't had COVID, but would probably still have died from the other causes.

[Mountain Man]

Nearly every American who has died of coronavirus also suffered from other underlying diseases, recent Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) data reveal.

According to the CDC's latest update on COVID-19 fatalities, 94 percent of people who have died of the infection in the US had at least one pre-existing condition, such as obesity, high blood pressure or heart disease.

Coronavirus was the sole cause of death for just six percent of fatalities as of data published August 26.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...onditions.html

[Stoic]

Don't forget, in some cases the government had monetarily incentivized positive diagnoses, such as when coronavirus relief legislation created a 20% premium, or add-on, for taking care of Medicare patients diagnosed with it.

Even if they had an incentive to diagnose patients with it, that doesn't mean they had an incentive to falsify death certificates.

The 20% premium applied to every patient with COVID. The cause of death did not need to be COVID.

[Stoic]

Nearly every American who has died of coronavirus also suffered from other underlying diseases, recent Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) data reveal.

According to the CDC's latest update on COVID-19 fatalities, 94 percent of people who have died of the infection in the US had at least one pre-existing condition, such as obesity, high blood pressure or heart disease.

Coronavirus was the sole cause of death for just six percent of fatalities as of data published August 26.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...onditions.html

That's what happens when you use a source like the Daily Mail.

Death certificates where COVID was not the only cause listed included those like pneumonia, respiratory failure, cardiac arrest, or other conditions caused by COVID.

source

You (or at least others) can also see why the CDC might be afraid of people misinterpreting their data.

[Mountain Man]

The Director of the CDC also admitted that 75% of deaths attributed to the China flu were people who had four or more comorbidities.

So when they say they are afraid that the vaccine data could be "misinterpreted", what they mean is "A correct interpretation will destroy our narrative".

[rogue06]

That was right around the same time that Birx instituted the "a guess is as good as a test" policy, where even if it was merely suspected that an individual had the China flu, it was considered a positive diagnosis.

Several states permit that sort of diagnosis on a death certificate while others require an actual examination.

IIRC, California is one of the states that allow "educated guesses" rather than a confirming examination.

[Stoic]

The Director of the CDC also admitted that 75% of deaths attributed to the China flu were people who had four or more comorbidities.

So when they say they are afraid that the vaccine data could be "misinterpreted", what they mean is "A correct interpretation will destroy our narrative".

Thanks for providing another example. The study that the CDC director was quoting was a study of 1.2 million vaccinated people.

When you leave out the fact that these people were vaccinated, you are misinterpreting the data.