How much of this is Trump's fault?

[JimL]

I really wish people wouldn't be so cavalier with the numbers. Just checking this morning, deaths in the US are at 125,000 - 128,000. That's not "hundreds of thousands".
It's this kind of exaggeration that makes you guys look not so credible.

Graphic: Coronavirus deaths in the U.S., per day



2,467,147 - Confirmed cases in U.S.

125,547 - Deaths in U.S.

And we rarely see reports on recoveries.

And Trump said we have just 15 cases and in a few weeks we'll have zero, like a miracle the virus will just disappear. That was his mindset, and that's why we are where we are now. Now it's Europe that won't allow Americans to travel there.

[Cow Poke]

And Trump said we have just 15 cases and in a few weeks we'll have zero, like a miracle the virus will just disappear. That was his mindset, and that's why we are where we are now. Now it's Europe that won't allow Americans to travel there.

Jim - you don't believe anything says, and I don't believe a whole LOT of what he says, so it's really useless to post "Trump said....".

[JimL]

Jim - you don't believe anything says, and I don't believe a whole LOT of what he says, so it's really useless to post "Trump said....".

Many people do believe what he says, and many governors have acted according to what he says, including your Governor and my Governor which is why the situation in Texas and Florida are as bad as it is now.

[Whateverman]

I think the buck stops with the leader. Trump seems to have done a very poor job on Covid and hundreds of thousands of Americans are dead and dying, who need not have, as a result.

I've avoided responding to my own thread, because I wanted to see what other people think. The discussion has lasted long enough now that it feels like a good time to contribute:

It's clear that many people/entities are responsible for the state of the pandemic in the US. These people range from the mask-wearing public to healthcare workers to state governors to federal agencies to Trump himself. So, no matter how much blame Trump deserves, he doesn't deserve all of it.

With that said, I'm going to quote Trump himself, as an indication of how much he deserves:

Leadership: Whatever happens, you're responsible. If it doesn't happen, you're responsible.

~ #realdonaldtrump, 2014, Twitter

US conservatives are loathe (at least in public) to hold him to his own standards. This is one of the reasons I'm not a conservative (even though I lean conservative on a few issues).

[Whateverman]

Many people do believe what he says, and many governors have acted according to what he says, including your Governor which is why the situation in Texas is as bad as it is now.

Right. As much as I hate the way his fans alter their opinions cultishly based on the way Trump is thinking at the moment, that "devotion" could have been used to flatten the curve here in the US.

It wasn't, because Trump's concern has never been for/about the country that elected him to the highest office in the land.

[JimL]

Right. As much as I hate the way his fans alter their opinions cultishly based on the way Trump is thinking at the moment, that "devotion" could have been used to flatten the curve here in the US.

It wasn't, because Trump's concern has never been for/about the country that elected him to the highest office in the land.

Obviously, Trump doesn't even care about his own supporters. At least some of them may be wising up to his narcisism by the looks of the poor showing at his kickoff rally in Tulsa and the poll numbers showing him falling further behind Biden by 8 to 14 percent.

[Whateverman]

Obviously, Trump doesn't even care about his own supporters. At least some of them may be wising up to his narcisism by the looks of the poor showing at his kickoff rally in Tulsa and the poll numbers showing him falling further behind Biden by 8 to 14 percent.

For the record, I'm far from concluding that this next election is a no-brainer for Biden. Trump supporters notoriously avoided participation in pre-election polling back in 2016, so every time I see some indication of Trump's sagging support, I refuse to be encouraged by it.

[Cow Poke]

Many people do believe what he says, and many governors have acted according to what he says, including your Governor and my Governor which is why the situation in Texas and Florida are as bad as it is now.

Jim, you don't have a clue where my Governor is getting his information.
One of my Church members is on his advisory board, and I can guarantee it's not from Trump.
You really need to stop... you know.

[Cow Poke]

Right.

Wrong, he was just plain outright wrong.

[Cow Poke]

For the record, I'm far from concluding that this next election is a no-brainer for Biden. Trump supporters notoriously avoided participation in pre-election polling back in 2016, so every time I see some indication of Trump's sagging support, I refuse to be encouraged by it.

That will be interesting to see, because I think a lot of Republicans AND Independents don't want to identify with Trump, but they don't want the party of chaos and mayhem in control.
It will be interesting.

[JimL]

That will be interesting to see, because I think a lot of Republicans AND Independents don't want to identify with Trump, but they don't want the party of chaos and mayhem in control.
It will be interesting.

You mean like the party that's in control amid this current chaos.

[little_monkey]

How are things terrible? Are the death rates (per millions), as attributed to coronavirus, worse than death rates in comparable places in the EU?

I posted the Dallas County calculations somewhere. (The necessary data was easy to obtain for doing calculations on Dallas County.) There was no great number of deaths there. If we don't see those numbers increasing, they are okay. If there are specific places to investigate, we can see if there are real problems in those locations.

Each time I check these numbers, they prove near to the flu death rate. New York city was different but I don't think anything there has been common to other locations.

???

There are dozens of reports that Texas ICU beds are about to be overwhelmed. Ditto for Florida and California - these are the three biggest states by population. The death rate was going to flatten out by end of May, but June is turning out to be different as the disease is increasing in those three states and so is the death rate.

BTW, seasonal flu deaths as reported by the CDC have always been estimates, while covid deaths are reported directly.

[Whateverman]

???

There are dozens of reports that Texas ICU beds are about to be overwhelmed. Ditto for Florida and California - these are the three biggest states by population. The death rate was going to flatten out by end of May, but June is turning out to be different as the disease is increasing in those three states and so is the death rate.

BTW, seasonal flu deaths as reported by the CDC have always been estimates, while covid deaths are reported directly.

One of the interesting things (to me) about the conservative / Republican response to the pandemic is their analogies to the flu. I've never heard them adequately respond to the presence of cooler-trucks at hospitals. The dead literally piling up so fast, outside storage was needed to keep bodies intact (and further disease transmission down). This has never been seen with the flu in the US - and yet the analogies persist.

If COVID-19 is no deadlier than the flu, why are cooler trucks needed?

[Cow Poke]

You mean like the party that's in control amid this current chaos.

EGGzackly, since the great majority of the states and cities where this chaos is occurring are run by Democrats.

[Cow Poke]

???

There are dozens of reports that Texas ICU beds are about to be overwhelmed...

There are dozens of reports that little green men are in a mother ship behind the moon watching our every move.