The issue that led to the Right becoming Pro-Life

[Bill the Cat]

Did they make you play "life boat" in High School? The "situational ethics" game?

No. In college in ethics class. Made them feel stupid too.

[Cow Poke]

No. In college in ethics class. Made them feel stupid too.

I wonder if they still do that - it was a dumb exercise.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

And if a woman doesn't want to care for her 3 month old, should she have the right to "terminate it via a medically safe" method?

A three month old baby is not the same as a fertilised ovum.

As long as you continue to spew illogical arguments that end up killing unique members of our species who have done nothing wrong except exist, I will continue to expose them.

That you do not agree with me does not make my comments illogical. However, your ire is duly noted.

False. I consider it wrong because it destroys a human being.

human beingshuman beings lIt permits to be destroyed.

No. Nor does that matter. I've never seen someone overdose on heroine either.

It might make you consider what will happen if abortion is ever made illegal.

Both are avoidable by better choices.

Your complacent self-righteousness is duly noted.

Saying a book is biased isn't an ad hominem

Not relevant to my question. If a single mother living alone places her baby in a corner for 45 days and never tells anyone about it, what will happen to it? Can an infant survive on its own?

Nor can it survive AFTER it is born without her supplying all its nutrients. [your comment] contains no such qualification

There is no mention in that reply about a single mother, living alone, or placing her child in a corner for 45 days.

Yes a definite pattern.

https://www.thoughtco.com/nazis-and-women-1221068

Godwin's Law.

It was not coined by the Nazis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinder...%BCche,_Kirche

Perhaps you missed the entire New Testament's description of the church?

There was no church as an institution until the fourth century after Constantine issued his toleration towards Christianity.

False. The Church at Jerusalem was the authority until Peter moved to Rome.

There was no church. The Jerusalem Movement under James was not Christian as you understand the word. I'd also point out that Peter's visit to Rome is merely Christian tradition.

This is complete and utter ignorance. The Bishops were appointed by the Apostles and their students. They were the authorities of their region, reporting to the Bishop of Rome.

That is nothing but more Christian tradition reinforced by various individuals to add to their own prestige and position among their communities.

I'm not talking about the Trinity.

The orthodox Christian approach to life refers to the pro-life stand that orthodox Christians have taken since the beginning of the Church.orthodox ChurchAnd even then plenty of Christians continued not to adhere to it.Christians and replacing it with the word "heretics" while informing me "Fixed it for you. No charge.

Again, this has nothing to do with the anti-abortion stance of the early Church.

church

The anti-abortion stance of the early Fathers was the orthodox position.

Which ones? Ante or Post Nicene?

That some who called themselves Christians were disagreeing is immaterial. The leadership set doctrine.

There was no leadership until the late fourth century and even that was prone to factionalism and infighting. I recommend you do some background reading on the early centuries of your religion.

Or perhaps you are one of those who thinks the Jerusalem branch of Simon & Schuster had a book signing event in 60 CE.

Ask yourself why you quote the books you have cited. Are you stressing their credentials?

To demonstrate from whence information I have given is obtained and to allow anyone who might wish to do so, to read those works for themselves.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

[QUOTE=Bill the Cat;750950]Nope. Just countering to show the absurdity of that canard. [quote]Why do you consider it a canard?

[DesertBerean]

Did they make you play "life boat" in High School? The "situational ethics" game?

I despised those.

[Cow Poke]

I despised those.

Yup - stupid forced binary choices, or artificially limited options.

[lilpixieofterror]

I think that is the issue.

That strikes me as a rather sweeping generalisation.

Not really because Europe is far more divided, by nationality, than the US.

You seem to be making contradictory remarks.

Not really because I do acknowledge that even within an European nation, there can be differences. The history of Germany is one of small nation states, banned together under a loose empire, invasions, destructions of a country, conquest, break up and reunification. There is differences in these areas and how each was influenced, but most of Germany is German. Not necessarily the case here.

Having driven with family over the years from San Francisco to Phoenix and then sometimes on to San Diego, the sheer size of California alone never fails to impress me.

California is slightly larger than Japan (as I recall).

Interesting although your comments are, I am not entirely sure I recognise their relevance.

We know the USA is an immigrant nation.

Which gives you a country with blended cultural traditions.

Citation?

Here is the CDC report on the topic:

https://www.cdc.gov/teenpregnancy/about/index.htm

I am sure you were. Unless you are like Benjamin Button and have yet to age down to there!

As far as I know I have.

That is opinion that does not tell me a great deal about why more US teens from different groups get pregnant.

Again anecdotal comments and opinion does not explain the discrepancy between the US and Europe.

Sure it does because how else do you explain such low rates among Asians vs the rest?

Parenthood is still relevant.

"You know, Mrs. Buckman, you need a license to buy a dog, or drive a car. H*ll, you need a license to catch a fish! But they'll let any ... be a father."

Barring drug addiction or contaminated blood.

Asians as in sub-continent or Far East?

Among sub-continent Asians a high percentage are Muslim

From the Middle East, yes. We however label them mainly as white, in the US census and data collection. Asian we primarily label as those living in the Far East.

[Bill the Cat]

A three month old baby is not the same as a fertilised ovum.

Nor is it the same as a 27 year old woman. Your point?

That you do not agree with me does not make my comments illogical. However, your ire is duly noted.

Agreed. They are illogical on their own. No help needed from me.

human beingshuman beings lIt permits to be destroyed.

red_herring1.jpg

It might make you consider what will happen if abortion is ever made illegal.

The back alley abortion myth? Again? Seriously??

Your complacent self-righteousness is duly noted.

It's neither complacent nor self-righteous. Everyone makes choices in life. We suffer the consequences of those choices. Personal responsibility seems to be a lost art for the left these days...

You cited ONE book. I commented that you read "A" book. You read into my comment that I implied you had read only one. Again, a YOU problem.

Nor can it survive AFTER it is born without her supplying all its nutrients. [your comment] contains no such qualification

I forgot that I was dealing with someone who needs every I dotted. Nitpicking needs clarification.

There is no mention in that reply about a single mother, living alone, or placing her child in a corner for 45 days.

Just making it to where you can't squirm out of answering. Again.

Yes a definite pattern.

duck.gif

It was not coined by the Nazis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinder...%BCche,_Kirche

But it was obviously associated with them, as the Wiki page clearly shows.

There was no church as an institution until the fourth century after Constantine issued his toleration towards Christianity.

This is ignorance at its most base level. I guess the Paulean letters, Acts, or the Minor Epistles don't mention the Church, right?

There was no church. The Jerusalem Movement under James was not Christian as you understand the word. I'd also point out that Peter's visit to Rome is merely Christian tradition.

Please keep it up. I'm so enjoying your nonsense.

That is nothing but more Christian tradition reinforced by various individuals to add to their own prestige and position among their communities.

Emojis are all this comment deserves.


These nonsense accusations are just utter hogwash. It betrays an ignorance of even the most basics of Biblical studies.

I was writing about the orthodox church and the establishment of orthodox belief, primarily the homoousion trinity aka the Nicene Creed.

Sorry, but this was just one doctrine, and one of the most difficult to articulate. The church was remarkably in unison on the core matters of the faith. Additionally, the Trinity was not ESTABLISHED at Nicea, it was AFFIRMED.

The orthodox Christian approach to life refers to the pro-life stand that orthodox Christians have taken since the beginning of the Church.orthodox Church

And that is false.

And even then plenty of Christians continued not to adhere to it.

To which I said they were not Christians. They were heretical sects.

To which you, presumably thinking you were being clever, replied by putting a line through "Christians and replacing it with the word "heretics" while informing me "Fixed it for you. No charge.

To make your comment accurate. You're welcome.

As you appear to be woefully uninformed about the development of your religion I provided some background information on both Irenaeus and the political situation some hundred or more years later in the fourth century.

I've studied these things for years. I am aware of the development and growth of the earliest church on through the Protestant Reformation. You, on the other hand, appear to be woefully uninformed about actual majority scholarship on the early church.

church

Stop it. I can't take much more of this inanity!! I'll tell you what. We have a section called Tektonics. Post this nonsense there and let us all watch the ensuing carnage...

Different Christians believed all manner of different things about Jesus.

False. Heretics believed many things, but Christians did not.

Which ones? Ante or Post Nicene?

There was no leadership until the late fourth century and even that was prone to factionalism and infighting. I recommend you do some background reading on the early centuries of your religion.

Kevin_lol.gif

Or perhaps you are one of those who thinks the Jerusalem branch of Simon & Schuster had a book signing event in 60 CE.

"If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball"
- Patches O'Houlihan

To demonstrate from whence information I have given is obtained and to allow anyone who might wish to do so, to read those works for themselves.

Oh baloney. You are leaning on their credentials like a one legged man in a butt kicking contest. As I said earlier, I do not care one whit whether you respect my knowledge on US military strategy. Others read this thread.

[Bill the Cat]

Why do you consider it a canard?

To be more precise, it's an exercise in stupidity. It's an attempt at a "gotcha" for those of the pro-life position, as if having to choose between 2 things means the unchosen didn't matter at all. It's easily turned around on the questioner. So, again, your mother or the cancer patients?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Nor is it the same as a 27 year old woman. Your point?

You are the one that suggested a woman could kill her three month old child, not me.

Agreed. They are illogical on their own. No help needed from me.

Correction. You do not agree with me. That is something quite different.

The back alley abortion myth? Again? Seriously??

It's neither complacent nor self-righteous.

Everyone makes choices in life.

Well there is nothing like stating the blindingly obvious. Although of course conditions at the time affect and influence the choices that an individual makes.

We suffer the consequences of those choices. Personal responsibility seems to be a lost art for the left these days...

A blanket statement that totally ignores the myriad reasons for why women seek out abortions.

You cited ONE book.

As the topic of this thread. I can give you a reading list if you like. Judging from your previous comments and some of those that follow in this reply you could benefit from some additional reading on certain topics.

I forgot that I was dealing with someone who needs every I dotted. Nitpicking needs clarification.

Within this medium we can only respond to what our interlocutor writes. Nor do I have ESP. I cannot know what you meant I can only know what you wrote.

That simple fact seems to elude many on boards like this.

Just making it to where you can't squirm out of answering. Again.

Nor can it survive AFTER it is born without her supplying all its nutrients. we can both agree that a newborn child needs care. However,, as I pointed out that does not automatically require the biological mother.

[A piece of advice, had you initially qualified that remark when you first wrote it, you would not have made yourself look so foolish.]

But it was obviously associated with them, as the Wiki page clearly shows.

This is ignorance at its most base level. I guess the Paulean letters, Acts, or the Minor Epistles don't mention the Church, right?

Please keep it up. I'm so enjoying your nonsense. Emojis are all this comment deserves.

Your inability to set aside your entrenched preconceived ideas does not overly concern me. I find it rather entertaining.

These nonsense accusations are just utter hogwash. It betrays an ignorance of even the most basics of Biblical studies.

Then rather than repeatedly telling me I am wrong produce some evidence to support your contentions.

Sorry, but this was just one doctrine, and one of the most difficult to articulate. The church was remarkably in unison on the core matters of the faith. Additionally, the Trinity was not ESTABLISHED at Nicea, it was AFFIRMED.

It was established on a vote. Does the name Arius mean anything?

And that is false.

There was no over-arching Church as in an established institution until the fourth century.

To which I said they were not Christians. They were heretical sects.

To make your comment accurate. You're welcome.

[Other than Arius and the exiled bishops] all the rest saluted the emperor, signed the formula and went on teaching as they always had. In the case of most of them, this meant a doctrine of Christ somewhere between that of Arius and that of Alexander.

I've studied these things for years. I am aware of the development and growth of the earliest church on through the Protestant Reformation.

I can only opine that your reading has singularly failed to increase your understanding.

You, on the other hand, appear to be woefully uninformed about actual majority scholarship on the early church.

majority scholarship on the early church

Stop it. I can't take much more of this inanity!! I'll tell you what. We have a section called Tektonics. Post this nonsense there and let us all watch the ensuing carnage...

nonsense

False. Heretics believed many things, but Christians did not.

heresyheresyhereticalorthodoxyheresyorthodoxyOh for shame. I though you could at least have managed to list a few names. However, although individuals such as Athenogoras and Marcus Minucius Felix were clearly opposed to abortions and abortifacients it should be noted that these men had no over-arching authority by which they could assert their views. The Christian view of infanticide was clearly premised on that of its parent religion which was admired by many in the Graeco-Roman world for not exposing unwanted children. However, abortion was also condemned by various Roman figures notably Cicero and Pliny the Elder. The higher moral ground was therefore not solely occupied by early Christians.

Oh baloney.

Have you been studying the entrails? You appear to claiming to know my mind.

I do not care one whit whether you respect my knowledge on US military strategy. Others read this thread.

Then why keep protesting by writing that you do not care?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

double post

[Cow Poke]

double post

You can "edit", and one of the choices is delete, if you'd like. Or I'll be happy to for you.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

You can "edit", and one of the choices is delete, if you'd like. Or I'll be happy to for you.

Thank you for your kind offer.

[Bill the Cat]

You'll have to forgive me, but I will be gone for the next week as I am on assessment at work.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

You'll have to forgive me, but I will be gone for the next week as I am on assessment at work.

That's interesting...

Have fun!