Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

[Leonhard]

We don't really know what's going on behind the scenes right now, and I'm not one to jump to conclusions.

True. I just hope they actually do something. These police officers making a huge sign of quitting was bad form of them.

Leon, why do you get this way sometimes? We're friends, I thought. Two reasonable men having a reasonable discussion. Sometimes, it appears, you go off on these emotional....

Can we discuss this like reasonable men? Please?

Maybe.

Cards on the tables I hate bullies Cow Poke. I was bullied rather intensely as a kid. Chased down, mocked, face held down in snow, beat up and then later scolded by teachers for having defended myself one time in eight grade when kids from grades lower than me had begun bullying me and I finally snapped. I've let go of that, and I've forgiven those people because even though I can remember those situations, I know they can't and it didn't matter to them. And carrying grudges like that isn't good for a person.

However I have an enduring anger about bullies. Especially when it is people who abuse the privileges they have to get away with it, or to shape the narrative to fit their ends. I will tend to side with the victim, always, and try to see in what way the police might have slipped up here. Because they are the ones in control. They create the situation. They have the power, and they have the law on their side. They can't also expect to have the publics support at every turn.

I accept I will always be critical of the police Cow Poke. They carry the guns and the beat sticks. Their words are automatically heavier, and pretty much gold plated in comparison to any other testimony. They've gotten away with straight up murder on more than one occassion, only to be rehired so they can score their entire pension like the Daniel Shaver shooting. They can kill a man, who is standing in the sanctity of his own home, and they still enjoy so much legal protection that in the thread of Botham Shem I was practically the only one here who thought it was a crime and calling for manslaughter, and even today several people here think that murderer was only convicted due to political reasons or slip ups in the court.

Police are a higher class of citizens. Anyone else are second class citizens in comparison. That's just the way it is in order for police to work, they need to be freed of some of the ordinary restraints that other citizens are bound by. I accept this rationally Cow Poke.

But they better be ready for scrutiny.

[Darth Ovious]

They were told the party is over, and they're going to be held more accountable and their department is going to be reformed and then they quit? Weak. Pathetic. Not fit for their uniform.

A bit harsh. I don't think we should blame the many for the few. Police officers have a difficult job that they do for a low wage. Imagine being a police officer putting your life on the line every day for no appreciation only to get all the blame for what other officers did. Now the unions aren't even supporting you. I would quit too if that was the case.

I don't think that's the next step up. There's plenty of police in the neighboring counties. Reform isn't impossible, and seven officers quitting isn't going to change that.

The seven officers are an example, apparently police officers are quitting in multiple areas. I've heard that 6 police officers are quitting a day and that's on top of police retiring, etc.

[Leonhard]

A bit harsh. I don't think we should blame the many for the few. Police officers have a difficult job that they do for a low wage. Imagine being a police officer putting your life on the line every day for no appreciation only to get all the blame for what other officers did. Now the unions aren't even supporting you. I would quit too if that was the case.

I would have gone public with inside knowledge I had about Chauvin, and make a public showing about not working for them. Apparently this wasn't his first time either. This was just the first time it was really caught on camera.

[Darth Ovious]

Then where is that reform Cow Poke?

The far left don't care about reform, they want the police dismantled. The anarchists don't want a police and the democrats want to replace it with their own system that gives it's allegiance to them like other areas of society. For the activists they are just useful idiots and for the Democrats its all about control.

[Leonhard]

The far left don't care about reform, they want the police dismantled. The anarchists don't want a police and the democrats want to replace it with their own system that gives it's allegiance to them like other areas of society. For the activists they are just useful idiots and for the Democrats its all about control.

Well I'm glad we have you to tell us that all should just be 'status quo'. How useful conservatives are.

[Ronson]

If enough people move in on an area and they are competent enough in defending it, then the only ones who can get rid of them are the army. And the army should never be deployed against citizens.

I don't believe that's possible.

[Darth Ovious]

I would have gone public with inside knowledge I had about Chauvin, and make a public showing about not working for them. Apparently this wasn't his first time either. This was just the first time it was really caught on camera.

I think you are assuming that they had knowledge of Chauvin to do this in the first place. It wasn't his first time but the details of a lot of incidents he was involved in are not known and one instance we do know other officers were involved and it was ruled to not be a violation.

[Leonhard]

I don't believe that's possible.

What part of it isn't possible? It's been the case with other autonomous zones, where police have successfully been kept out. They're not equipped to handle something a well armed force numbering in the hundreds. At that point you need the army. And the army, on principle and practical wisdom, should almost never be deployed against a civilian population.

[Darth Ovious]

Well I'm glad we have you to tell us that all should just be 'status quo'. How useful conservatives are.

Never said status quo, I mentioned it because that's why there is such a big push for defunding the police coming from the left. The police is one area they don't have a lot of influence on overall. Reform I am fine with.

[Ronson]

What part of it isn't possible? It's been the case with other autonomous zones, where police have successfully been kept out. They're not equipped to handle something a well armed force numbering in the hundreds. At that point you need the army. And the army, on principle and practical wisdom, should almost never be deployed against a civilian population.

It's not possible to make a few square blocks inside a city truly "autonomous." They may call themselves that, but they're not.

I watched this film as a child. Dated stuff now, but it deals with this subject as a comedy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passport_to_Pimlico

[Leonhard]

Never said status quo, I mentioned it because that's why there is such a big push for defunding the police coming from the left. The police is one area they don't have a lot of influence on overall. Reform I am fine with.

Honestly, if there is an actual call for defunding I think that's horrendously stupid. I've met some of that but only in the most extreme socialist circles I'm in contact with. Most liberals just want some of those police departments completely dismantled, and then built up again, and they're quite willing to wave concerns about unions to get some radical restructuring done.

I'm glad for the police officers who signed a letter showing support for something like this, and that letter represented hundreds. Now those officers I'd cheer for. They showed back bones.

Those seven guys leaving the office? Paint a yellow stripe down their backs for good effort.

[Leonhard]

It's not possible to make a few square blocks inside a city truly "autonomous." They may call themselves that, but they're not.

By this definition "truly autonomous", no state in the US is "truly autonomous". Each one is reliant on products made in other states.

In terms of creating a zone where regular law enforcement cannot operate in under normal circumstances? That's very feasible.

[Cow Poke]

By this definition "truly autonomous", no state in the US is "truly autonomous". Each one is reliant on products made in other states.

Which is why we're not dumb enough to call ourselves "autonomous".

In terms of creating a zone where regular law enforcement cannot operate in under normal circumstances? That's very feasible.

Where everybody behaves all the time, sure. What happens when there's a rape, or murder, or theft, or violence, or vandalism...

[Ronson]

By this definition "truly autonomous", no state in the US is "truly autonomous". Each one is reliant on products made in other states.

But they are all recognized states by all the other states in one country. They operate as parts of the whole. They don't pretend to be autonomous.

In terms of creating a zone where regular law enforcement cannot operate in under normal circumstances? That's very feasible.

That's not autonomy. It's some sort of fantasy.

[Leonhard]

Which is why we're not dumb enough to call ourselves "autonomous".

Texas sure likes to pretend that it is

Isn't there like a small group of weirdos calling out for secession every year in Texas?

Where everybody behaves all the time, sure. What happens when there's a rape, or murder, or theft, or violence, or vandalism...

In order to create any ordered society, the police, or the equivalent needs to happen. They will form their own. I don't envy them that task.