Ukrainian prosecutors find no evidence against Hunter Biden

[JimL]

You tell me to "fact check" and then don't bother providing a source. That's rich.

The investigation was active at the time Shokin was fired. In fact, a Burisma higher up had recently had his home raided by investigators, which is what prompted Hunter to contact the White House to see if they could get Shokin off the case. Coincidentally (yeah, right ), Shokin had named Hunter as a target of the investigation and was planning to bring him in for questioning when Joe "You smell nice" Biden showed and coerced Ukraine into firing Shokin.

As usual, this is not speculation or guesswork. We know it happened.

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign...wYDEV8.twitter

Well, in your case you need to fact check your fack checking, MM. Fack checking Breitbart by way of another of your right wing fake news sites, or fake journalists like John Solomon isn't fack checking, it's confirmation bias. The actual facts exist, the investigation into Burisma was shelved 2 years prior to Shokins firing.

Vitaliy Kasko, Shokins deputy overseeing international cooperation produced documents showing that the investigation into Burisma was shelved in 2014.And it wasn't just the U.S. by way of Biden who pressured for Shokins removal by threat of withholding financial aid, the entire western world as well as the IMF made the same threat. Perhaps you think they were all just trying to protect Bidens son?

[DivineOb]

Wiki is wrong or just lying. MM posted the freaking video of Biden bragging about getting Shokin fired in this very thread and you even responded to that post.

The relevant part is the highlighted parts. Trump claimed in the call Shokin was fired to protect Hunter from being investigated. You and MM are claiming that Hunter was never accused of wrongdoing. So which is it? Did Trump just make that up or are you guys mistaken?

There's no confusion. You're the only one that seems to be confused. We know Zlochevsky was corrupt. We know Zlochevsky ran a company Biden's son Hunter worked for. We know Biden got Shokin fired. What we don't know is why Biden got Shokin fired.

The logical conclusion is that Biden got Shokin fired because he was investigating Zlochevsky and his company. The left says Biden got Shokin fired because he WASN'T investigating Zlochevsky and his company.

Which one makes more sense to you?

We know why Shokin was fired. Not just the USA but *many* countries were of the opinion that he was corrupt. Unless you are going to expand the conspiracy to Biden strong arming many of our allies to go along with the fiction that Shokin was corrupt we have plentiful evidence that he was indeed corrupt.

The gap between "we don't know why he was fired" and "he was fired because he was going to investigate Zlochevsky" is a gigantic chasm. Far, far larger than the gap between "Trump kept his UKR dealings as secret as possible, even from DoD" to "Trump did so for corrupt reasons," for example.

If we really don't know whether to believe the Republicans or Democrats on this issue why not go with the consensus of the other western democracies?

[DivineOb]

You tell me to "fact check" and then don't bother providing a source. That's rich.

The investigation was active at the time Shokin was fired. In fact, a Burisma higher up had recently had his home raided by investigators, which is what prompted Hunter to contact the White House to see if they could get Shokin off the case. Coincidentally (yeah, right ), Shokin had named Hunter as a target of the investigation and was planning to bring him in for questioning when Joe "You smell nice" Biden showed and coerced Ukraine into firing Shokin.

As usual, this is not speculation or guesswork. We know it happened.

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign...wYDEV8.twitter

If Shokin was clean (as you say) and Hunter is not being accused of wrongdoing (as you say) why would this be an issue?

[seanD]

The relevant part is the highlighted parts. Trump claimed in the call Shokin was fired to protect Hunter from being investigated. You and MM are claiming that Hunter was never accused of wrongdoing. So which is it? Did Trump just make that up or are you guys mistaken?



We know why Shokin was fired. Not just the USA but *many* countries were of the opinion that he was corrupt. Unless you are going to expand the conspiracy to Biden strong arming many of our allies to go along with the fiction that Shokin was corrupt we have plentiful evidence that he was indeed corrupt.

The leap between "we don't know why he was fired" and "he was fired because he was going to investigate Zlochevsky" is a gigantic chasm.

If we really don't know whether to believe the Republicans or Democrats on this issue why not go with the consensus of the other western democracies?

Like I said, we know that Biden got Shokin fired. The right believes he got Shokin fired because he was investigating Zlochevsky and his company that Hunter worked for. The left says Biden got Shokin fired because he WASN'T investigating Zlochevsky and his company that Hunter worked for. Which one makes more sense?

[DivineOb]

Like I said, we know that Biden got Shokin fired. The right believes he got Shokin fired because he was investigating Zlochevsky and his company that Hunter worked for. The left says Biden got Shokin fired because he WASN'T investigating Zlochevsky and his company that Hunter worked for. Which one makes more sense?

Your original post before your edit claimed that Trump did not bring up Hunter. Given the below quote and your edit do we now agree that Trump brought Hunter up? Clearly Hunter being accused of wrongdoing can not be divorced from the "Hunter Biden scandal" given that fact.



Now that we know that Hunter is clean we know that the reason Shokin was fired can't be in order to protect Hunter Biden *if* Shokin was also clean. We have the testimony of numerous countries, not just the USA, that Shokin was dirty. These two data points make a strong case that Shokin was dirty. You have a high evidential requirement to overcome this obvious interpretation of the data.

[Mountain Man]

Ha Ha, nepotism in the Trump administration. How dare you suggest such a thing!

You just proved my point.

[seanD]

Your original post before your edit claimed that Trump did not bring up Hunter. Given the below quote and your edit do we now agree that Trump brought Hunter up?



Now that we know that Hunter is clean we know that the reason Shokin was fired can't be in order to protect Hunter Biden *if* Shokin was clean. We have the testimony of numerous countries, not just the USA, that Shokin was dirty. These two data points make a strong case that Shokin was dirty. You have a high evidential requirement to overcome this obvious interpretation of the data.

Hunter being clean is not the issue. The only issue with Hunter is why he was working for a corrupt oligarch in Ukraine and how he got that job. We know it was most likely because of who his father was. Then the question becomes the connection between Zlochevsky and Biden. Then the issue is why Biden got Shokin fired. Shokin claims he was investigating Zlochevsky and Burisma, the company Hunter worked for. That seems to make the most sense, otherwise those connections -- Ukraine, Zlochevsky, Burisma, Hunter, Shokin -- all seem pretty coincidental.

[DivineOb]

Hunter being clean is not the issue. The only issue with Hunter is why he was working for a corrupt oligarch in Ukraine and how he got that job. We know it was most likely because of who his father was. Then the question becomes the connection between Zlochevsky and Biden. Then the issue is why Biden got Shokin fired. Shokin claims he was investigating Zlochevsky and Burisma, the company Hunter worked for. That seems to make the most sense, otherwise those connections -- Ukraine, Zlochevsky, Burisma, Hunter, Shokin -- all seem pretty coincidental.

Trump claimed that Shokin was fired to protect Hunter Biden. Shokin claims that he was fired to protect Hunter Biden. To quote the link



Your interpretation of events seems at odds with two of the central players. You can't claim that the scandal is actually something else now that Hunter Biden was shown to be clean. A prosecutor's job is to enforce the law, not investigate actions which are (you say) unsavory but legal. So it can't be the case that Shokin was merely looking at "how [Hunter] got the job" (unless you can explain what was illegal about that). And it can't be to investigate Hunter's role at the company (unless there was something illegal about *that*). If you're now claiming that Shokin was fired in order to prevent him from discovering corruption at Burisma totally unrelated to Hunter Biden then the connection to Hunter is so tenuous that it's extremely disingenuous to call this the "Hunter Biden scandal."

[seanD]

Trump claimed that Shokin was fired to protect Hunter Biden. Shokin claims that he was fired to protect Hunter Biden. To quote the link



Your interpretation of events seems at odds with two of the central players. You can't claim that the scandal is actually something else now that Hunter Biden was shown to be clean. A prosecutor's job is to enforce the law, not investigate actions which are (you say) unsavory but legal. So it can't be the case that Shokin was merely looking at "how [Hunter] got the job" (unless you can explain what was illegal about that). And it can't be to investigate Hunter's role at the company (unless there was something illegal about *that*). If you're now claiming that Shokin was fired in order to prevent him from discovering corruption at Burisma totally unrelated to Hunter Biden then the connection to Hunter is so tenuous that it's extremely disingenuous to call this the "Hunter Biden scandal."

"Fired to protect Hunter" I don't see as meaning Hunter himself was corrupt and that's what Shokin was investigating. "Fired to protect Hunter" means that Hunter was working for a boss that Shokin claims he was investigating. Considering it would have looked really bad for Hunter to be caught up in that, then yeah, you can say Biden was essentially protecting his son. But I think it's more about quid pro quo between Zlochevsky and Biden, which would explain how Hunter got that job in the first place.

[JimL]

You just proved my point.

Are you suggesting that the DOJ should open an investigation into the Trump Administration due to the cushy jobs given to family members of Trump, Giuliani, and quite possibly the most sinister of them all, Trumps personal Atty Gen., B. Barr? Jared Kushner is making millions due to his connections to the White House, so is Ivanka. Giuliani's son, and Barrs daughter also landed cushy jobs and who knows what other finacial advantages they are getting out of it.

[DivineOb]

"Fired to protect Hunter" I don't see as meaning Hunter himself was corrupt and that's what Shokin was investigating. "Fired to protect Hunter" means that Hunter was working for a boss that Shokin claims he was investigating. Considering it would have looked really bad for Hunter to be caught up in that, then yeah, you can say Biden was essentially protecting his son. But I think it's more about quid pro quo between Zlochevsky and Biden, which would explain how Hunter got that job in the first place.

That isn't what Trump said to Zelensky and it isn't what Trump said to the public. I wouldn't have liked it but I wouldn't have really had much of an issue with Trump saying "I just want to double check that everything was done by the book with the firing of Shokin and then I'll release the aid." It would have looked like a fishing expedition but one which no one could have really claimed was improper.

Your interpretation is at odds with Trumps statements and behavior. Therefore you will need very strong evidence to support your explanation. All you have at the moment is supposition and innuendo. And you'd have to prove that Shokin wasn't corrupt as everyone says which you have made no attempt at.

Trump *explicitly* brought up Hunter Biden as part of his asks. You have to explain that. It makes no sense to bring up something irrelevant to a world leader when discussing monetary and symbolic support that they are desperate for.

[seanD]

That isn't what Trump said to Zelensky and it isn't what Trump said to the public. I wouldn't have liked it but I wouldn't have really had much of an issue with Trump saying "I just want to double check that everything was done by the book with the firing of Shokin and then I'll release the aid." It would have looked like a fishing expedition but one which no one could have really claimed was improper.

Your interpretation is at odds with Trumps statements and behavior. Therefore you will need very strong evidence to support your explanation. All you have at the moment is supposition and innuendo. And you'd have to prove that Shokin wasn't corrupt as everyone says which you have made no attempt at.

It is true that I can't read Trump's mind, but I know he's an imbecile as far as trying to express what he means in a concise way. I seriously doubt he believed Shokin was investigating Hunter's corruption. I mean, maybe, but I doubt it. I just see it as Trump incapable of clearly expressing what he means. I believe what he was inquiring about is the intertwining connections between Zlochevsky, Biden, Hunter, and Shokin, which looks suspicious, and Zelensky obviously would have had the power and means to get to the bottom of it all. Giuliani, the one apparently working for Trump, expressed it this way, so why wouldn't I believe this is how Trump saw it?

[DivineOb]

It is true that I can't read Trump's mind, but I know he's an imbecile as far as trying to express what he means in a concise way. I seriously doubt he believed Shokin was investigating Hunter's corruption. I mean, maybe, but I doubt it. I just see it as Trump incapable of clearly expressing what he means. I believe what he was inquiring about is the intertwining connections between Zlochevsky, Biden, Hunter, and Shokin, which looks suspicious, and Zelensky obviously would have had the power and means to get to the bottom of it all. Giuliani, the one apparently working for Trump, expressed it this way, so why wouldn't I believe this is how Trump saw it?

Going forward every time you claim Biden is going senile I'm going to point you to this post and the absolute level of buffoonery you're willing to ascribe to a (mentally sharp!) Trump in his dealings with an important ally who is engaged in a *hot war* with Russia and who desperately needs promised material and symbolic support. Holy hell!

[rogue06]

Ha Ha, nepotism in the Trump administration. How dare you suggest such a thing!

The big difference is that members of his family have shown sharp business acumen whereas Hunter's qualifications are getting kicked out of the military because he's a coke head, dumping his wife so he could get together with his recently deceased brother's widow and then getting a stripper pregnant.

No, with the Bidens the only thing that any of them appear to have going for them is that they are related to Joe. And they've gotten rich because of it, being deeply ensconced in the 1%ers as a result.

For instance,

Source: The Ties that Biden

David Richter, the president of Hill International (HIL), a mid-sized outfit that manages construction projects, was speaking last year at a private meeting with investors when he was asked about the recent success of his newest subsidiary, HillStone International.

Source

© Copyright Original Source

As I said:

It's a family business with the Biden's. His brother got a high paying job where his only qualification was that he was Joe's brother -- something the owners were very open about saying they thought it would help in securing government contracts.

[JimL]

The big difference is that members of his family have shown sharp business acumen whereas Hunter's qualifications are getting kicked out of the military because he's a coke head, dumping his wife so he could get together with his recently deceased brother's widow and then getting a stripper pregnant.

No, with the Bidens the only thing that any of them appear to have going for them is that they are related to Joe. And they've gotten rich because of it, being deeply ensconced in the 1%ers as a result.

For instance,

Source: The Ties that Biden

David Richter, the president of Hill International (HIL), a mid-sized outfit that manages construction projects, was speaking last year at a private meeting with investors when he was asked about the recent success of his newest subsidiary, HillStone International.

How was it that HillStone, a newcomer in the business of home building, landed a massive and potentially lucrative contract to build 100,000 homes in war-torn Iraq?

Richter didn’t mince words. It really helps, he said, to have “the brother of the vice president as a partner,” according to a person who was present.

The “brother” Richter was referring to during the meeting is James Biden, the younger brother of Vice President Joe Biden.

Since November 2010, James Biden has been the executive vice president of Hill International’s housing subsidiary despite little if any documented work history in residential construction. And if the company’s projections are accurate, both Hill and Biden are on the verge of a huge payday, beneficiaries, some analysts believe, of James Biden’s connections to the Obama Administration through his older brother.

Indeed, the Iraq project may be the most lucrative single development in Hill’s history. Since 2011, Hill, located in Marlton, NJ., has been losing money; the shares were recently trading at $3.82, down about 28% this year on New York Stock Exchange trading.

And some analysts remain dubious about the completion of the Iraq project, including those at Sidoti & Company, which slashed earnings estimates on Friday. But if company officials are to be believed -- and there’s good reason to believe them given Hill’s connections to the Obama Administration -- Hill will be solidly profitable once the Iraq development gets underway. Company officials say the Iraq project is slated to generate $1.5 billion in revenues over the next three years, more than three times all the revenues Hill produced in 2011.




Source

© Copyright Original Source

As I said:

And Hunter and James aren't the only ones in the Biden clan making money off Joe's position and power. His daughter Ashley got appointed to head a Delaware nonprofit, Delaware Center for Justice -- something she had no experience doing, but does have a well-connected daddy -- around the same time that they received a $166,000 grant from the Edward Byrne Memorial fund.

Of course it is a coincidence that Joe has been intimately involved with that grant program having steered $1.7 billion into it while Vice President.

This grant resulted in the Delaware Center for Justice doubling in size and revenue in just one year, going from bringing in $768,305 to $1,517,854 after the grant.

As Tom Anderson, director of the National Legal and Policy Center’s Government Integrity Project, puts it:

"The timing of the grant approval and his daughter’s ascent to leadership in the organization that received it makes it necessary for the agencies involved to investigate whether Biden improperly used his influence to steer this grant to his daughter."

Do you mean to tell me that people get jobs because of who they know rather than what they know? Who would have ever thought it. The question is was anything illegal done. Trump claimed that the PG Shokin was after Hunter Biden for something illegal at the time the U.S., the west, and the IMF pressured Zelensky to fire Shokin. Hunter Biden wasn't even employed by Burisma at the time it was being investigated. Biden came on board in 2014, the pressure to get rid of Shokin didn't come until 2016 at which time the investigation into the company and its owner had been shelved.
Getting rid of Shokin was a priority for the west because he was corrupt, and because he wasn't prosecuting the rampant corruption going on throughout Ukaraine, and the west, including the U.S. wasn't going to provide aid until and unless Ukraine cleaned up their act. The way the right is trying to portray it is that it was only the U.S., specifically that it was only Biden, that was pressing for Shokins to be fired. Had Shokin not been corrupt himself, had he been doing his job and been prosecuting the rampant corruption in Ukraine, including Burisma, then the west would not be pushing for his ouster.
Hunter Biden did nothing illegal, and Joe Biden was carrying out U.S. policy in calling for the ouster of Shokin. Trump should have been impeached!