Ahmaud Arbery; racist killing and attempted cover up.

[JimL]

And it's worth mentioning, again, that the gun wasn't fired until after Arbery attacked even though both men had a clear opportunity to shoot beforehand, so it's entirely possible that the fatal shot was an accidental discharge.

Yep, he accidently pulled the trigger 3 times.

[Cow Poke]

Yep, he accidently pulled the trigger 3 times.

It happens more often than you think, Jim, when there's a struggle over a gun. I'm not saying it did in this case - things are not so well defined, but when somebody is trying to hold onto a weapon that somebody else is trying to take away - the same thing happens, the hand grips the gun tighter, and the finger could pull the trigger.

To me, it looks like STUPID was on parade that day all around, on both sides.

[oxmixmudd]

You are inexcusably ignorant. Obama frequently took veiled, and in many cases not-so-veiled swipes at President Bush to the point that "Blame Bush" became a joke during Obama's two-terms in office.

Sorry MM. They didn't try to make sure a portrait of the former president was not hung in the white house. And they were at least amicable when they met together in public. Bush and Michelle Obama are great friends at this point. So much for your attempt to malign Obama along with your Idol Donald Trump. And they did not pursue to dismantle each and everything the former president did, regardless of whether it was good or bad from within the perspective of their own political point of view. As with all things. Trump goes beyond what anyone before him has done, especially if it is something despicable or petty.

I stand by my belief that Donald Trump's overt, deep, and irrational hatred of Obama is sourced in deep racial prejudice, along with a great deal of the right's disdain for him. Donald Trump can not abide his nation gaining anything good from a black man in power. And it is his mission to make sure nothing of what Obama did remains for future generations to benefit from. This is what I believe motivates him WRT Obama.

[JimL]

It happens more often than you think, Jim, when there's a struggle over a gun. I'm not saying it did in this case - things are not so well defined, but when somebody is trying to hold onto a weapon that somebody else is trying to take away - the same thing happens, the hand grips the gun tighter, and the finger could pull the trigger.

To me, it looks like STUPID was on parade that day all around, on both sides.

Had they stayed in the truck instead of jumping out to confront the guy none of this would have happened and Arbery could have continued on his merry way. Once McMichael jumped out with his shotgun in hand to confront him there was an immanent threat and Arbery's actions at that point, whether his decision turned out to be a wise one or not, is irrelevant.

[Mountain Man]

Yep, he accidently pulled the trigger 3 times.

You are holding a shotgun with your finger on the trigger, and someone tries to wrestle the gun away from you.

Tell me, under those circumstances, do you think it would be possible to accidentally discharge the weapon multiple times?

[Cow Poke]

Had they stayed in the truck instead of jumping out to confront the guy none of this would have happened and Arbery could have continued on his merry way. Once McMichael jumped out with his shotgun in hand to confront him there was an immanent threat and Arbery's actions at that point, whether his decision turned out to be a wise one or not, is irrelevant.

You can play that game all day long, Jim. Had Arbery stopped, or retreated, and had they advanced on him, then it would have been far more obvious that the aggression was on the McMichaels, and Arbery was the innocent victim.

[Cow Poke]

You are holding a shotgun with your finger on the trigger, and someone tries to wrestle the gun away from you.

Tell me, under those circumstances, do you think it would be possible to accidentally discharge the weapon multiple times?

It happens far more than most people would think. Which, of course, why it's part of the plot of so many murder mysteries.

[Mountain Man]

I stand by my belief that Donald Trump's overt, deep, and irrational hatred of Obama is sourced in deep racial prejudice, along with a great deal of the right's disdain for him.

Since you're apparently one of those idiots who sees a racist behind every bush, I'm not surprised you would stand behind this ridiculous belief.

[oxmixmudd]

Had they stayed in the truck instead of jumping out to confront the guy none of this would have happened and Arbery could have continued on his merry way. Once McMichael jumped out with his shotgun in hand to confront him there was an immanent threat and Arbery's actions at that point, whether his decision turned out to be a wise one or not, is irrelevant.

Exactly. What these yahoos fail to do is put themselves in Arbery's shoes, or give Arbery any benefit of the doubt. Now it would be a useless endeavor to try to get at why they'd rather put themselves in the shooters shoes (they seem to have plenty of compassion for them) vs the dead guy's shoes - another day perhaps.

But to do that, they would have to imagine themselves out for a run, taking a break at a house under construction, and then getting flagged down by two or three people in vehicles with a threatening posture. Deciding to try to ignore them and be on your way, only to have them pursuing you, with the truck in front pulling on ahead, stopping. One fellow getting out and standing in the bed in a confrontational posture and the other getting out with a shotgun in hand.

And then asking the question - what do I do? At least two angry men in front. perhaps one behind, And the two in front have guns on them, and one of them has his gun drawn. And the question is not what THEY would do vs what Arbery did. The question is to get a-hold of the raw FEAR and CONFUSION that would grip a person in that situation. to begin to understand what was done TO him.

And then (although I doubt these yahoos are even capable of this) try to see if from the perspective of a black man who grew up in Georgia, looking into the eyes of two angry and armed white men.

[Cow Poke]

If THIS "yahoo" were black, and in Arbery's shoes, I wouldn't be running toward redneck white dudes with guns.

[Mountain Man]

Had they stayed in the truck instead of jumping out to confront the guy none of this would have happened and Arbery could have continued on his merry way. Once McMichael jumped out with his shotgun in hand to confront him there was an immanent threat and Arbery's actions at that point, whether his decision turned out to be a wise one or not, is irrelevant.

I don't think someone confronting you while simply holding a weapon is enough in and of itself to constitute an imminent threat. From what I can see in the video, the man on the ground only aimed his weapon after Arbery failed to stop and continued running straight at him, and the gun wasn't discharged until after Arbery actually attacked and tried to wrestle the gun away, at which point there was an imminent threat.

Based on current public knowledge, this seems to be one of those strange cases where neither party was clearly in the right, or clearly in the wrong, and now it's up to the judicial system to untangle the mess.

[Cow Poke]

Based on current public knowledge, this seems to be one of those strange cases where neither party was clearly in the right, or clearly in the wrong, and now it's up to the judicial system to untangle the mess.

As I said, "Stupid" was on parade that day on BOTH SIDES, but the hyper-racially-sensitive virtue signalers can't possibly allow there to be even the slightest bit of responsibility on the victim, because that would be... well... RACIST!

[JimL]

If THIS "yahoo" were black, and in Arbery's shoes, I wouldn't be running toward redneck white dudes with guns.

He wasn't running toward them, he avoided their pursuit twice and they kept coming.

[oxmixmudd]

If THIS "yahoo" were black, and in Arbery's shoes, I wouldn't be running toward redneck white dudes with guns.

I didn't figure you could hold back (you didn't 'quote me', but you are CLEARLY replying to my post). I'll resume my truce with you after this post, if you will continue from this point as well.

One post each.

The point is not what YOU would do. The point is to understand what HE was facing. He apparently believed he was in a situation he needed to fight to survive, and he had been taught by his mother to avoid fights if he could, but if there is no other way out, fight for your life and fight to win. And that is what he did. He was facing death in the face, and it was either run and get shot in the back, submit and suffer who knows what, or fight and hopefully survive. That is the situation. Now maybe you would run. Maybe you would hope they didn't intend to kill you and just stop and put your hands up (some of that is you are white and so are they. A black man facing two white men with guns is going to be far less likely to believe they are not out to kill him). And maybe you would fight to survive. But that part doesn't really matter, because the men who killed him created the circumstance.

That's all I have to say. Truce resumed if you will allow it.

[JimL]

I don't think someone confronting you while simply holding a weapon is enough in and of itself to constitute an imminent threat. From what I can see in the video, the man on the ground only aimed his weapon after Arbery failed to stop and continued running straight at him, and the gun wasn't discharged until after Arbery actually attacked and tried to wrestle the gun away, at which point there was an imminent threat.

Based on current public knowledge, this seems to be one of those strange cases where neither party was clearly in the right, or clearly in the wrong, and now it's up to the judicial system to untangle the mess.

Arbery had no obligation to stop, any more than you would had two black men threatened you. And McMichaels had no authority to stop him with threat of shooting him. Remember, he commited no crime, and the McMichaels were not aware of whether he commited a crime or not. Regardless, they initiated the confrontation by their constant armed pursuit, and ordering him to stop with the threat of being shot. How Arbery reacted to that is irrelevant.