Stop spreading garbage online conspiracy theories

[oxmixmudd]

I disagree. It would do her harm if it were brought up as truth, and if people here were to denigrate her here as they are on other places on the web. That rising tide of abuse causes real evil to happen, and the more places it gains a foothold, the more damage it will do.

When we propagate falsehoods about another, we become literally an agent of evil. I would think most Christians deep down don't want to be agents of evil, but sometimes they don't think very deeply about the consequences of their actions.

[mikewhitney]

No

They come up rather frequently mossross. IT was especially bad during the Blaise Ford scandal, we've seen it somewhat continuously from Mike Whitney. It shows up in the form of breitbart 'articles' from Mountain Man, or almost any time the topic of Global Warming is breached. A lot of it comes in the form of tweets from our President. The dangers of wind turbines I think came up once. I haven't - fortunately - seen the 5G caused COVID-19 to be bad in New York, but hey the day is young. Seems like there have been some sympathetic to the 'Sandy hook is a hoax' garbage? not sure. And most classic is the pages long discussion between MM and myself about the supposed park service/MSM falsification of the Trump inauguration photos - which I think MM still buys into.

But no, I'm not going to get too much into specifics primarily because the people posting those things have already been confronted with the silliness of them and have simply dug their heels in and just refused to listen to logic, or the actual facts.

My purpose in starting this thread is to raise the issue directly, rather than indirectly as part of another thread - e.g the sidebar in the evangelical fear thread. It's not just here, it's all over the US, all over the world. And it's not just one ideological subgroup either. And it is a very big problem. Knowledge, research, intelligent analysis of ideas and issues is being replaced with rumors and almost plausible 'theories' based on crazy people's paranoia. It used to sit in back rooms and focus on 'they faked the moon landing', or 'ancient space aliens', or the 'Rockefeller's plan for global domination' etc. But now - because any crazy idea can get real airtime and there are no longer intelligent, well researched filters of bogus information because it used to be expensive to disperse real information to a nationwide or global audience - if an idea tickles someone's paranoia, it is everywhere. And more and more people, even people with college degrees, are allowing themselves to be dragged into it.

A lot of it comes - I believe - from the extreme polarization we are seeing, and a general sense of wanting the demonize the 'other side'. On the one hand, when we want to think bad things about those we disagree with, it makes it a lot easier to believe things that are a little nuts just because if feeds that hatred and helps reinforce that belief the other side is pure (or almost pure) evil. On the other, if you want to create divides and pull people into your own camp at the expense of national unity (or to destroy some other nations cohesiveness), the internet offers a really good platform.

Hatred - Paranoia - Fear - feeding an ever growing disinformation extravaganza.

Yep - its running rampant. Even in Christian circles. And it is growing out of control.

You certainly are showing your mind controlled status. The stuff I have presented mostly is well researched using material commonly available to anyone who wishes to investigate things.

You have rejected many ideas without doing any research. It is actually your so-called legitimate media sources which are promoting this unrational fear on this coronavirus. I was trying to calm people down and restore rational thought. You simply are rejecting debate while being spoonfed by mass propaganda. If you wish not not have to debate or think about topics made controversial because of the mass media, I suggest you find a website that caters to mind-numbed people.

[oxmixmudd]

You certainly are showing your mind controlled status. The stuff I have presented mostly is well researched using material commonly available to anyone who wishes to investigate things.

You have rejected many ideas without doing any research. It is actually your so-called legitimate media sources which are promoting this unrational fear on this coronavirus. I was trying to calm people down and restore rational thought. You simply are rejecting debate while being spoonfed by mass propaganda. If you wish not not have to debate or think about topics made controversial because of the mass media, I suggest you find a website that caters to mind-numbed people.

Sorry mike - that just is not the case. You are the worst one posting in civics for bringing in the internet nuttery. Sorry, it is what it is. I have tried to reason with you on it, but so far no success.

[mikewhitney]

pix - that just isn't the truth. There is a massive amount of hostility here on this site toward my posts, (e.g. I get flamed for just posting the raw data about COVID-19) there is literally nothing I can do to stop it, and very little that I do that actually provokes it. It's just a perpetual anger that seethes here and will likely never leave.

So I know you will not admit this to be true, but in the majority I respond to individuals that attack me, I don't attack individuals specifically. This thread is not an attack on specific people, but is an attack on a trend that is common to internet forums like this and there are people here that are doing exactly what I'm talking about. And clearly some of those people took it personally.

I was angry at what was happening to this woman and her family. So that anger can be seen in the tone of my OP. But my appeal is to those of you that tend to do this to look at what is does to people, look at what it is doing to the woman in the story. And to please stop letting yourselves get drawn into this sort of thing. The accusatory demonization of others, it's a very destructive thing. But you are mistaking my anger at that for an attack on specific people here.

Then there was the time the media totally represented the situation wrong with the teenager wearing a MAGA hat. Certainly it is true that private citizens need to be respected for their privacy unless there is good evidence of severe wrongdoing. But there are people who do cause severe trouble in this world and should be pointed out for it -- when there is good evidence.

One thing about your views ... first they mostly seem like leftist-based odd perspectives. It gets a bit irritating hearing the irrational jibberish. And that can get people reacting against you in your stubborn ignorance or mindset.

[mikewhitney]

Sorry mike - that just is not the case. You are the worst one posting in civics for bringing in the internet nuttery. Sorry, it is what it is. I have tried to reason with you on it, but so far no success.

Where have you tried to reason with me? It would be interesting where you think you have presented good reasoning on stuff I post.

I made a challenge for people to research stuff on the coronavirus and nobody posted on any unbiased investigation on any of the types of issues I listed. People don't want to be informed.

[oxmixmudd]

... It gets a bit irritating hearing the irrational jibberish. ...

Interesting ....

[oxmixmudd]

Where have you tried to reason with me? It would be interesting where you think you have presented good reasoning on stuff I post.

I made a challenge for people to research stuff on the coronavirus and nobody posted on any unbiased investigation on any of the types of issues I listed. People don't want to be informed.

Mike - I've discussed the basic science with you on a few occasions, but my impression was you don't have a very good grasp of it overall. So I don't engage you a lot, there just is no point.

[mikewhitney]

Mike - I've discussed the basic science with you on a few occasions, but my impression was you don't have a very good grasp of it overall. So I don't engage you a lot, there just is no point.

the science didn't match the facts. the numbers just don't work in most states.

bad data makes science models fail rather quickly.

[MaxVel]

The Propensity for many on this site to accept and cling to unsubstantiated rumor and hate filled garbage floating around the internet is palpable.

This thread is a plea to those of you whose internal leanings make you inclined to believe and propagate this stuff to please, stop. Unless there is real and solid confirmation from multiple mainstream university research or multiple legitimate journalistic sources, just file it under TBD (To be Determined) and wait before you hurt peoples lives.

This story was on CNN today, about a woman arbitrarily singled out as a 'source' for COVID 19. Here and in China rabid internet conspiracy junkies are lapping this up and pushing it on to friends and acquaintances, putting this women and her family in danger. She has never tested positive, never experience symptoms, but the same sorts of irresponsible behavior we see here every day has put her life in danger.

My wife gets stuff like this every day on her facebook feed and some of you bring the same sort of unsubstantiated rumor here and post it as fact.

Please - just stop.


https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/27/tech/...ory/index.html

Can we spread legitimate, non-garbage conspiracy theories? Asking for a friend....

[oxmixmudd]

Can we spread legitimate, non-garbage conspiracy theories? Asking for a friend....

Are there any? (I mean conspiracies do happen, there must be some somewhere, just not a new one every day )


Do you have a method you think works for vetting this sort of thing and figuring out if the latest internet buzz conspiracy mumbo jumbo has any real substance to it?

[MaxVel]

Are there any? (I mean conspiracies do happen, there must be some somewhere, just not a new one every day )

Well, obviously it was Aliens that built the Pyramids. That one for a start,

(before you mock, I had a student choose this answer in a quiz... it was supposed to be the blindingly obvious false choice.

Do you have a method you think works for vetting this sort of thing and figuring out if the latest internet buzz conspiracy mumbo jumbo has any real substance to it?

You have to go back to the original sources as much as possible, check your prejudice at the door, listen to the best arguments on all sides, and then...


...Orange Man Bad!!

(sorry, couldn't resist )


and then go with the best evidence and reasoning.



I'm by nature cynical and inclined to think that we're being lied to about quite a lot, sometimes merely by omission, so I have an inclination to question pretty much everything. At least some of the myriad conspiracy theories must be at least partially true, just by pure chance. But which ones? Apart from the obvious Aliens built the Pyramids,

[oxmixmudd]

Well, obviously it was Aliens that built the Pyramids. That one for a start,

(before you mock, I had a student choose this answer in a quiz... it was supposed to be the blindingly obvious false choice.




You have to go back to the original sources as much as possible, check your prejudice at the door, listen to the best arguments on all sides, and then...


...Orange Man Bad!!

(sorry, couldn't resist )


and then go with the best evidence and reasoning.



I'm by nature cynical and inclined to think that we're being lied to about quite a lot, sometimes merely by omission, so I have an inclination to question pretty much everything. At least some of the myriad conspiracy theories must be at least partially true, just by pure chance. But which ones? Apart from the obvious Aliens built the Pyramids,

The aliens thing is funny. Too much Discovery or History channel I guess

I would agree with your assessment of how to deal with these, but I would add 'wait - see where it goes, see what else comes to light' before pushing it on to others. And speak out when something is known to be false. That push back will help others hold out for more evidence. If those pushing these things get pats on the back or instant positive responses, they are less inclined to check them out for themselves. The problem there of course (as we see here every day) is that people don't usually respond very well to being publicly corrected about something they publicly posted and endorsed.

On the "Orange man Bad" thing - despite the constant claims to the contrary - that is not how I think. That is, I can acknowledge when Trump does a good thing, I don't have to turn it into something bad, and I can acknowledge when the media is going too far in criticizing something he did - which is not uncommon at this point. I understand I am often against what Trump is doing, but that is because I am against what he is doing.

[Ronson]

You have to go back to the original sources as much as possible, check your prejudice at the door, listen to the best arguments on all sides, and then...


...Orange Man Bad!!

(sorry, couldn't resist )


and then go with the best evidence and reasoning.

And with actual "conspiracy" theories, apply 'risk-vs-gain' too. That deflates most of them.

[oxmixmudd]

And with actual "conspiracy" theories, apply 'risk-vs-gain' too. That deflates most of them.

[mikewhitney]

Well, obviously it was Aliens that built the Pyramids. That one for a start,

(before you mock, I had a student choose this answer in a quiz... it was supposed to be the blindingly obvious false choice.




You have to go back to the original sources as much as possible, check your prejudice at the door, listen to the best arguments on all sides, and then...


...Orange Man Bad!!

(sorry, couldn't resist )


and then go with the best evidence and reasoning.



I'm by nature cynical and inclined to think that we're being lied to about quite a lot, sometimes merely by omission, so I have an inclination to question pretty much everything. At least some of the myriad conspiracy theories must be at least partially true, just by pure chance. But which ones? Apart from the obvious Aliens built the Pyramids,

I was trying to direct people to the best sources. But people think that if the news doesn't post something, the info doesn't exist. I like getting different perspectives. There are some brilliant people who post out of there specialties. One guy was trained in Psyops -- so he tells how people can be easily deceived.