Half of all cases happening in care homes

[Sparko]

So you stand by your statement that if someone was any good they would not be working in long term care? I thought your statement was pretty clear. CP brought in the idea of a calling, which I assume he means a divinely inspired vocation.

Did you read the rest of my statement? smh.

No, the horribleness (is that a word?) was from the way the people are being treated. Most nursing homes are understaffed, have a low budget, and staffed with people who don't seem to care about the patients. It's probably the lowest rung on the healthcare ladder. If you are any good, you would be working somewhere else. And that shows. I have had family members in nursing homes.

Now I am not saying that there are NO people working there that care for patients and do a good job. I am sure there are, and probably some good nursing homes out there, but by and large, they are not someplace you want to end up, or loved ones. We put our mother in one when she had lung cancer on the advice of a doctor. After only a few days, we took her back out and my brother took her in and hired home nurses and hospice. My brother's father-in-law had a stroke and their family could not care for him and there wasn't any home healthcare avaliable there so he had to go to a nursing home. They took such poor care of him that he lost a leg because they didn't catch an infection in time. He eventually died there.

[mossrose]

Yes my church does have several nursing home ministries. But all we can do is supply company, some prayer, and such. We aren't healthcare workers and are not licensed. What about you? What do YOU do about those in nursing homes besides accuse Christians of not doing enough?

You are such a twit. The horribleness is not from the "end of life" but how those who are going through the end of life are treated by the nursing homes.

I already asked him that, twice, and he refuses to answer. So, in light of his refusal, we know the answer, don't we?

[Cow Poke]

I already asked him that, twice, and he refuses to answer. So, in light of his refusal, we know the answer, don't we?

Unfortunately, he appears to be like the anti-Christian bigots here who are only posting here to do battle.

[mossrose]

Just how many Christians do you that really do enough, especially enough to be satisfied upon judgement?

My salvation is not based on my works, twit. I'm so sorry that yours is. Of course, that's the Catholic Church, isn't it.

[Sparko]

I already asked him that, twice, and he refuses to answer. So, in light of his refusal, we know the answer, don't we?

He obviously is just doing his normal trolling thing. He is really good at it. Basically the same way the MSM treats Trump. No matter what he says, find a way to twist it into something else so they can slam him for it.

We mention that the care in nursing homes is not good (anyone who visits one regularly will tell you that) and he reads that as we hate the workers so we are not pro-life? What the? We care about the people being mistreated but he reads it as not caring about the workers.

I guess we can read his posts as caring about the workers and not the residents, huh?

I am done with him.

[Cow Poke]

He obviously is just doing his normal trolling thing. He is really good at it. Basically the same way the MSM treats Trump. No matter what he says, find a way to twist it into something else so they can slam him for it.

We mention that the care in nursing homes is not good (anyone who visits one regularly will tell you that) and he reads that as we hate the workers so we are not pro-life? What the? We care about the people being mistreated but he reads it as not caring about the workers.

I guess we can read his posts as caring about the workers and not the residents, huh?

I am done with him.

Yeah, that's what I've noticed --- you express care for the residents, because that's where your heart is, and they really need the attention and encouragement, and you get blasted for not praising the workers.

[Sparko]

Yeah, that's what I've noticed --- you express care for the residents, because that's where your heart is, and they really need the attention and encouragement, and you get blasted for not praising the workers.

Obviously, the poor conditions are all the fault of the residents themselves.

[Cow Poke]

Obviously, the poor conditions are all the fault of the residents themselves.

There are certainly market forces at work, and it often causes problems...

Two of our six nursing homes were pretty much considered sub-standard, but one of them has really taken the initiative to fight that perception. How did they do this? By purposely hiring more qualified employees. So, in retrospect, only ONE of our nursing homes still has the stigma of "I'd never put MY momma in there!"

By the way, since this COVID thing started, obviously we've been able to do ZERO "in person" nursing home ministry, but we have found ways to do (with the cooperation of Nursing Home staff) livestreams and facetime visits, and are still collecting things for distribution like socks, chapstick (WHO KNEW that chapstick had to be non-oilbased to prevent dangerous interactions with residents on oxygen) and knitted hats and quilts.

[simplicio]

Sim - do you truly think that there does not exist a body of people working for minimum wage (or not much more) in elder care facilities that would NOT being working elsewhere if they were actually skilled? They exist all over the place. My elderly mother used to be the charge nurse in a local nursing home and would come home continually griping about the low pay the new hires were getting, especially nurses aids, and the "I don't care" type of employee it would attract. She was constantly trying to weed out the bad apples. I read CP's post as acknowledging and lamenting the existence of this dynamic - not claiming everyone in any given nursing home was operating in that mode.

Did I already say "last word?" I lost track. In any event...this is my last word on this issue.

I do not deny that that can and does exist, but I will note that a charge nurse will have a handle on it, a real understanding of the work required. But that bottom tier is the easiest to weed out, they are not doing the job and often it is the others who have to pick up the slack who pressure the "slacker".

But to the casual observer, the lackadaisical attitude is pretty much indistinguishable from the one with a true "calling", if the work is getting done. There is such a strong negative view of nursing homes, that even the smells are seen as horrid, but that is the nature of nursing homes, I have never been in one that my nose instantly recognizes as a nursing home.

Perceptions are not based on the quality of the actual care given, secondary considerations are paramount. The fact is that the person is lucky to get more than 2 hours of hands on care per day. The really excellent caregiver is hard to distinguish from the average or poor.

I'm Catholic. I believe that even those menial jobs have dignity. I am also pro life, which includes end of life issues which I attribute to the Creator. But if the one needing long term care, and is not too difficult, then it is easier to get a placement in one of the more desirable homes. But if the person is harder to care for, and is indigent, then he is placed in a less desirable home. But if the frail person develops a problem, the nursing home gets blamed. The argument here coincides with the pro-euthanasia justifications. CP readily connected the low quality of the employee to the name tag, (and so the position of CNA) though I doubt if he noticed it.

Many of those CNA do excellent job, do it with dignity while recognizing the dignity of patient.

Here is one article about negative perceptions of homes: https://www.agingcare.com/articles/n...ies-133358.htm The only point I disagree with is the point about odors. It is unavoidable and it is odors which prompt so many objections to homes. The states and the medicare is continually working to weed out the bad apples and the bad homes. Long term care is almost $200 billion industry, but that segment did not get nearly as much attention as the insurance side during the discussions on Obamacare.

Was your mother working in long term care because she was unable to get another job in health care? Try pointing out that to someone in health care, I doubt it will be received very well.

[Cow Poke]

...But to the casual observer, the lackadaisical attitude is pretty much indistinguishable from the one with a true "calling", if the work is getting done.

This doesn't even make sense. In order to recognize a "lackadaisical attitude", there has to be something in the performance that demonstrates this. On the other hand, somebody with a true "calling" is dedicated to the work, and does it with love and care. To the resident, this difference in 'attitude' is vital.

There is such a strong negative view of nursing homes, that even the smells are seen as horrid, but that is the nature of nursing homes, I have never been in one that my nose instantly recognizes as a nursing home.

You need to get out more.

[carpedm9587]

I do not deny that that can and does exist, but I will note that a charge nurse will have a handle on it, a real understanding of the work required. But that bottom tier is the easiest to weed out, they are not doing the job and often it is the others who have to pick up the slack who pressure the "slacker".

But to the casual observer, the lackadaisical attitude is pretty much indistinguishable from the one with a true "calling", if the work is getting done. There is such a strong negative view of nursing homes, that even the smells are seen as horrid, but that is the nature of nursing homes, I have never been in one that my nose instantly recognizes as a nursing home.

Perceptions are not based on the quality of the actual care given, secondary considerations are paramount. The fact is that the person is lucky to get more than 2 hours of hands on care per day. The really excellent caregiver is hard to distinguish from the average or poor.

I'm Catholic. I believe that even those menial jobs have dignity. I am also pro life, which includes end of life issues which I attribute to the Creator. But if the one needing long term care, and is not too difficult, then it is easier to get a placement in one of the more desirable homes. But if the person is harder to care for, and is indigent, then he is placed in a less desirable home. But if the frail person develops a problem, the nursing home gets blamed. The argument here coincides with the pro-euthanasia justifications. CP readily connected the low quality of the employee to the name tag, (and so the position of CNA) though I doubt if he noticed it.

Many of those CNA do excellent job, do it with dignity while recognizing the dignity of patient.

Here is one article about negative perceptions of homes: https://www.agingcare.com/articles/n...ies-133358.htm The only point I disagree with is the point about odors. It is unavoidable and it is odors which prompt so many objections to homes. The states and the medicare is continually working to weed out the bad apples and the bad homes. Long term care is almost $200 billion industry, but that segment did not get nearly as much attention as the insurance side during the discussions on Obamacare.

Was your mother working in long term care because she was unable to get another job in health care? Try pointing out that to someone in health care, I doubt it will be received very well.

Again - you are painting as absolute a statement that was contextual. And it appears you are dedicated to the proposition, so further exchange seems pointless. I'll jump off here.

[Cow Poke]

Again - you are painting as absolute a statement that was contextual. And it appears you are dedicated to the proposition, so further exchange seems pointless. I'll jump off here.

No, don't! You make this interesting!

[carpedm9587]

No, don't! You make this interesting!

Now THAT is the first time anyone has said that to me on this forum...

[Cow Poke]

Now THAT is the first time anyone has said that to me on this forum...

Well, I'm only doing this because somebody else accused me of 'demeaning everyone' - so you're my token "be nice to the mortal enemy" exception.

[Cow Poke]

Again - you are painting as absolute a statement that was contextual.....

... and absolutely avoiding reality. I wonder if he has a stroke when people refer to "essential" and "non-essential" workers, or "skilled" and "unskilled" labor. The fact that somebody is starting out at the bottom of the "skill level" in no way means they're a bad person, or worthy of contempt, or a target of ridicule.

Again, our Church runs a Jobs for Life program where we actually work with these people to INCREASE their skill level and help them advance. It's kinda hard to do that if you don't recognize where they are at the moment.

It's SO MUCH easier to sit and attack those people who are actually doing the Lord's Work*.


*yeah, I had to throw a little sanctimony in there