Donald Trump and the Coronavirus

[Zara]

Did you read the article, the intelligence agencies did know, they told the President, he largely ignored them. There's nothing further to add.

The US wasn't prepared, it didn't prepare when it became clear that there was a problem, and Trump lied about it multiple times.

I grasp that you're grasping at straws.

[carpedm9587]

Did you read the article, the intelligence agencies did know, they told the President, he largely ignored them. There's nothing further to add.

The US wasn't prepared, it didn't prepare when it became clear that there was a problem, and Trump lied about it multiple times.

I grasp that you're grasping at straws.

Ironically, the intelligence agencies under Bush ALSO knew...but their intel was filtered to give it the exact spin Bush and Cheney wanted to justify their war. In both cases - the occupant of the White House ignored their intelligence agencies - with nasty consequences. I'm amazed she brought it up.

In any event - any engagement with Pix will be endless until you decide to get off. She'll spin tangent after tangent into the discussion until you have no clue what the original argument was about, and at least half of it will have nothing to do with anything you said. It's a tactic. That along with changing the message of your posts and then arguing nonstop against her straw men. I've learned to get off early when her tangents start to manifest. You have to tolerate the parting shots...but they're not that good so...


Just FYI....

[shunyadragon]

El Stupido,

So did Bush, how well did that turn out about the whole WMD thing?

I know this is hard for you to grasp, but:

- intelligence agencies have been wrong.
- knowing someone is lying and know what they are lying about, is two different things.

Come back when you can deal with these points because history is filled with mismanaged crisis, no matter what that letter at the end of their name is.

Bush also failed miserably in many aspect including especially the Middle East

[lilpixieofterror]

Did you read the article, the intelligence agencies did know, they told the President, he largely ignored them. There's nothing further to add.

Evidence please.

The US wasn't prepared, it didn't prepare when it became clear that there was a problem, and Trump lied about it multiple times.

And what precisely were they supposed to prepare for and when did they know? Be specific.

I grasp that you're grasping at straws.

Irony at its finest.

[lilpixieofterror]

Bush also failed miserably in many aspect including especially the Middle East

[lilpixieofterror]

Ironically, the intelligence agencies under Bush ALSO knew...but their intel was filtered to give it the exact spin Bush and Cheney wanted to justify their war. In both cases - the occupant of the White House ignored their intelligence agencies - with nasty consequences. I'm amazed she brought it up.

I see, so the intelligence agencies lied to Congress too and nobody bothered to come forth and accuse the Bush admin of lying? Anyone come forth to Congress and tell the truth?

In any event - any engagement with Pix will be endless until you decide to get off. She'll spin tangent after tangent into the discussion until you have no clue what the original argument was about, and at least half of it will have nothing to do with anything you said. It's a tactic. That along with changing the message of your posts and then arguing nonstop against her straw men. I've learned to get off early when her tangents start to manifest. You have to tolerate the parting shots...but they're not that good so...

[JimL]

Bush/Cheney didn't have to trust the intelligence, they directed their intelligence. They didn't go to war in Iraq because of intelligence, they went because they planned on going and directed the intelligence thusly. Colon Powell knew it.

[lilpixieofterror]

Bush/Cheney didn't have to trust the intelligence, they directed their intelligence. They didn't go to war in Iraq because of intelligence, they went because they planned on going and directed the intelligence thusly. Colon Powell knew it.

So nobody came forth and told Congress the truth?

[simplicio]

Evidence please.



And what precisely were they supposed to prepare for and when did they know? Be specific.



Irony at its finest.

What were they supposed to prepare for? A pandemic response. And they did have contingency plans prepared ahead of time, but those plans were set aside and ignored.

Yes China lied, but look at the timeline. They had six weeks more than we did, and moved to prevent panic and control the message. The WSJ broke the story that the Chinese were sitting on the molecular model of the virus for three days. (5 Jan to 8 Jan).

The narrative "China lied for months" does not really hold water. Singapore relied on information which came from China to be on the lookout for a strange form of pneumonia. And they heeded the advice. The US did not. Their first confirmed case was on 23 Jan, though many suspect it hit earlier. They took standard precautions for an epidemic.

Wuhan held large traditional gatherings on 19 Jan. Some in the US still want to host large gatherings. Wuhan was still an open city at the end of Jan, Seattle was an open city for how long after the first cases?

We knew in the middle of Jan that there was a difference of opinion between doctors in the field and the government. Sounds like the US today, a full four months into the pandemic and two months after the first recorded cases here.

[carpedm9587]

I realize the Trump base present on this forum are not going to do this, but if there are any U.S. citizens who are not sycophants to Trump present, please read this article and sign the referenced petition. At least we can make an effort to put an end to the free national Trump campaign rallies that are happening daily. Mr. Trump is shamelessly milking this crisis and using the rallies to replace the campaign rallies he can no longer have, giving him a national audience for his blather.

They should either hold these briefings with Pence or Fauci a the spokes person, or the news outlets should simply edit out the obvious campaigning and reduce the report to the relevant facts about the outbreak, steps taken, and information known.


ETA: I didn't realize the article doesn't link the petition itself. It is here. PLease sign it and share the link.

[simplicio]

I realize the Trump base present on this forum are not going to do this, but if there are any U.S. citizens who are not sycophants to Trump present, please read this article and sign the referenced petition. At least we can make an effort to put an end to the free national Trump campaign rallies that are happening daily. Mr. Trump is shamelessly milking this crisis and using the rallies to replace the campaign rallies he can no longer have, giving him a national audience for his blather.

They should either hold these briefings with Pence or Fauci a the spokes person, or the news outlets should simply edit out the obvious campaigning and reduce the report to the relevant facts about the outbreak, steps taken, and information known.

I am a US citizen who votes. And I am not a Trump fan, though I am a fan of the old religious right (which died in 2016) and a conservative of the reagan mold.

You are making the assumption that the braggadacio, lies, insults, and self serving spins will be a help come November. His shameless use of this crisis will come to haunt him, and will break the resolve of much of the Trump base (even some of the evangelical right).

[carpedm9587]

I am a US citizen who votes. And I am not a Trump fan, though I am a fan of the old religious right (which died in 2016) and a conservative of the reagan mold.

You are making the assumption that the braggadacio, lies, insults, and self serving spins will be a help come November. His shameless use of this crisis will come to haunt him, and will break the resolve of much of the Trump base (even some of the evangelical right).

I agree that is a possibility - but if there is one thing that Trump IS a genius at it is playing the press and the media. He knows the psychology of media and he knows how to spin it to his advantage. He has lost his rallies and now he has seen an opportunity to get in front of a national audience daily and press his campaign in the form of a "news briefing." Meanwhile, his political opponents are seriously hamstrung for media coverage and to put forward their counters to the Trump lies.

Unfortunately, it is a reality that lies repeated often enough are accepted as truth by a fairly significant part of the population - and this is the fact that Mr. Trump is counting on.

[lilpixieofterror]

What were they supposed to prepare for? A pandemic response. And they did have contingency plans prepared ahead of time, but those plans were set aside and ignored.

Yes China lied, but look at the timeline. They had six weeks more than we did, and moved to prevent panic and control the message. The WSJ broke the story that the Chinese were sitting on the molecular model of the virus for three days. (5 Jan to 8 Jan).

The narrative "China lied for months" does not really hold water. Singapore relied on information which came from China to be on the lookout for a strange form of pneumonia. And they heeded the advice. The US did not. Their first confirmed case was on 23 Jan, though many suspect it hit earlier. They took standard precautions for an epidemic.

Wuhan held large traditional gatherings on 19 Jan. Some in the US still want to host large gatherings. Wuhan was still an open city at the end of Jan, Seattle was an open city for how long after the first cases?

We knew in the middle of Jan that there was a difference of opinion between doctors in the field and the government. Sounds like the US today, a full four months into the pandemic and two months after the first recorded cases here.

[shunyadragon]

I question the highlighting above. Source? First, months before?, the earliest known possible case was ~Dec 12?.

Second, this is the time line with WHO, which is documented.

[carpedm9587]

Do you seriously believe the CDC intentionally lied about the pandemic, knowing the information was false?