Abortion safety

[firstfloor]

I suspect that what ff is trying to do here is make the pro-abortion crowd look bad.

Or he's merely blatantly trolling, as is his wont.

[One Bad Pig]

You're making it incredibly difficult to figure out whether you're going with the first or second option here.

[firstfloor]

You're making it incredibly difficult to figure out whether you're going with the first or second option here.

[One Bad Pig]

That helps. Blatant trolling it is!

[firstfloor]

That helps. Blatant trolling it is!

And, by definition, nobody, including you, wants an unwanted pregnancy.

[Christianbookworm]

That helps. Blatant trolling it is!

Whew! That's a relief! It would be sad if he were truly unable to put himself in our shoes.

[Tassman]

Yes indeed. On the positive side, children with Down Syndrome are very often the most delightful and cheerful people one could ever encounter.

[Tassman]

The bolded section sounds like it came from a pro life group which ministers to women who have had abortions, although it would be (and is) worded differently.

Arguments about personhood and fetuses avoid the hard issues, choices the woman faces, the options open to her.

her

[Tassman]

I knew a woman back in college who had already had several abortions. She preferred it over birth control.

Of course, you did. Like your Hollywood starlets having abortions to save their careers. But, in my experience women are not nearly so cavalier when it comes to abortions.

[rogue06]

Of course, you did. Like your Hollywood starlets having abortions to save their careers. But, in my experience women are not nearly so cavalier when it comes to abortions.

She was RCC and justified her actions by claiming that by having an abortion she only sinned once but by using birth control she was constantly sinning. I asked her what about her screwing around and didn't that constitute constantly sinning (fornication). To be fair I was doing a lot of that back then as well (screwing around that is).

Now, for the truly scary part. She often boasted how she taught a Sunday School class for young kids at her church. I can only imagine what sort of church that was.

Finally, I ran into her some 15 years or so later while working in sales for Orkin Pest Control (had the highest close rate in the region ) and she was married with two kids.


Now as for actresses... What would you say about Lena Dunham, who in her podcast in 2016 declared that she wished she could have an abortion as a stand of solidarity for women's rights? Pretty cavalier wouldn't you say?

And how about Busy Phillips who, only a little over a week ago, declared that her abortion was the reason for her professional success?

"There I was sitting in Los Angeles in my beautiful office of my own late night talk show. Soon I would be driving my hybrid car to my beautiful [f-bomb] home to kiss my two beautiful and healthy children and my husband, who had taken the year off to parent so I could focus on my career. And I have all of this, all of it, because I was allowed to have bodily autonomy at 15."

And how about Michelle Williams, who during her Golden Globes acceptance speech this January also credited having an abortion for her success declaring that



Please note how the Time magazine article points out how the audience of actors and actress (and other Hollyweird types) applauded her comments.

And maybe, just maybe, a better way to "choose when to have children, and with whom" is to not sleep around. Seems to be better than killing your mistakes.


ETA: Back in 2019 Alyssa Milano revealed that she had two abortions in 1993 because she wanted to focus on her career and was "not ready to be a parent."

[simplicio]

Well, I’m most definitely pro-choice, I didn’t intend to convey the opposite impression. In the final analysis, it is the woman’s choice to be made on the basis of her particular needs and circumstances. But it’s rarely an easy decision as you indicate.

You didn't convey the opposite impression, rather I noted the similarities in many pro choicers and pro lifers. While I am pro life, I do think few pro choicers are the rabid baby killers they are made out to be.

When the argument shifts to hard choices a woman faces, both the pro life and pro choice sides do sound similar. Seldom does the abortion arguments move to the topic of why a woman makes the decision to abort. And that is the real failure of the pro life movement and why we are making so little progress.

I do not think that the examples of a woman treating the procedure in a light and cavalier manner represents any significant portion of the woman who get an abortion. That is why I remark that few pro lifers have been involved with any ministry to women. In most cases they are faced with difficult choices on all sides, many would avoid abortion if they had choices open to them. Fr Pavone, of Priests for Life, has commented that abortions happen because of a lack of practical options.

Bottom line is that your post sounded like it could have come from a pro lifer with experience in ministries to woman (Rachel's Vineyard for one), while the pro lifers here sound like they have never been exposed to a Rachel Vineyard type ministry. Viewed from that angle, who is more "pro life": Tassman the atheist pro choicer or the various Christian pro lifers? You have accepted the key argument of those pro life groups, which few Christians are willing to address, let alone accept.

Do we treat the abortion issue in an academic manner, divorced from the realities a woman faces? That question will likely be trounced as 'trolling' by pro life Christians. But there can be no progress without address the realities of the conditions the women are faced with.

[Christianbookworm]

Well, that's what crisis pregnancy venters are for! To help pregnant women in crisis pregnancies, And it is also important that churches not shame single moms and help them out as good Christians ought too.

[simplicio]

Well, that's what crisis pregnancy venters are for! To help pregnant women in crisis pregnancies, And it is also important that churches not shame single moms and help them out as good Christians ought too.

How effective are those crisis pregnancy centers?

How effective are churches in not shaming single moms, or he;ping them out?

Is getting pregnant out of wedlock, and then carrying the baby, seen as a shameful act, or is it seen as a cause for celebration of life?

[Mountain Man]

But, in my experience women are not nearly so cavalier when it comes to abortions.

But why shouldn't they be cavalier? Why do you sniff with disdain at the Hollywood starlets prioritizing their careers when you've argued elsewhere that a woman who gets an abortion isn't doing anything immoral, that a fetus is just a valueless lump of tissue, and that getting an abortion is essentially no different than having an appendix removed?

So what's the big deal if woman did get an abortion on a passing whim? Why do you find that objectionable?

[rogue06]

But why shouldn't they be cavalier? Why do you sniff with disdain at the Hollywood starlets prioritizing their careers when you've argued elsewhere that a woman who gets an abortion isn't doing anything immoral, that a fetus is just a valueless lump of tissue, and that getting an abortion is essentially no different than having an appendix removed?

So what's the big deal if woman did get an abortion on a passing whim? Why do you find that objectionable?

To Tass and his ilk having an abortion to further their career is no different than getting a nose or boob job to further their career. But I think he didn't believe that it happens. I'm interested to see what his reaction is to my providing him several examples in post #145. I'm expecting enough hand waving from him that he'll achieve take off.