Coronavirus Outbreak...

[lilpixieofterror]

Pix, everyone buys things they don't need and many buy things they cannot afford. You're not saying anything here that is germane to the argument I put forward. You seem to have gone off on a tangent of your own making against a position I did not take.

Again, my position (from the outset) has been that statistically some 40% (we can adjust that to 20-40% if you wish) cannot deal with an unexpected expense of $400. That's 65-130 million people. Coupled with the statistics about lack of insurance, it is my opinion that coronavirus testing should be made free for all American citizens - in their interests and the interests of the rest of us.

If you want to argue with that position, you can certainly do so. So far you haven't. You've just started flailing away at some tangent you manufactured. So I'm going to leave the last word to you unless you address the argument I've actually been making.


ETA: Cue the "nail jello to the wall" narrative...

[lilpixieofterror]

That has nothing to do with anything I've said. You've also done nothing to actually substantiate that claim with actual evidence, though anecdotally and based on personal experience, I do agree that pretty much everyone buys something they don't need and/or can't afford at one point or another, for a wide variety of reasons.

[Mountain Man]

Right. It's not that "lower class" people can't afford what they need; rather, it's the fact that a lot of people are simply bad at managing their money -- a problem I admittedly had for many years until I started listening to Dave Ramsey.

[lilpixieofterror]

Right, it's not that "lower class" people can't afford what they need; rather, it's the fact that a lot of people are simply bad at managing their money -- a problem I admittedly had for many years until I started listening to Dave Ramsey.

[KingsGambit]

A cell phone itself is probably a necessity in many lines of business these days but I don't think it has to be a smart phone in all cases (like it was for my last job). Practically speaking, if I get stuck in traffic on the way to work, I'm going to need to contact management to avoid getting written up for tardiness, and that's how I'd do it. If you don't use it every day but for emergencies, one of those pay as you go models would probably be okay.

[carpedm9587]

Right. It's not that "lower class" people can't afford what they need; rather, it's the fact that a lot of people are simply bad at managing their money -- a problem I admittedly had for many years until I started listening to Dave Ramsey.

These kinds of post, left unresponded to, leave a bad impression - as does Pix's. It's part of the "the poor are poor because they don't work hard enough and/or spend their money frivolously" narrative. There are many reasons for poverty. Some don't work as hard as they could. Some don't manage their money as well as they could. Of the latter, some don't manage their money well due to lack of self-control, and some through lack of knowledge. Take those populations out of the equation and you still have a large body of the poor who are poor due to the circumstances in which they find themselves - caught in a "poverty trap" they are hard-pressed to escape.

The problem with this discussion is so many on the right focus on the first two populations as if they are the entire population of the poor, and so many on the left ignore that those populations exist. In that tension, the truly poor who need support to escape the poverty trap are lost.

And this is my last post on the topic. It is a tangent in this thread.

[Sparko]

So when a few governors praise Trump - it's "he's doing an awesome job"

And when a few governors criticize Trump - it's "they're bad apples!"


And you see this as a consistent position?

a few <> most

most governors are happy with Trump. a few aren't. And again, I wasn't even talking to you, you yet again butted into another conversation. I was commenting on Shuny's generalized statement that Trump isn't doing anything but hiding in the closet and pointing out that the governor of California who is a democrat, and normally criticized Trump, has been praising him. California is one of the hardest hit states and need a lot of help and they are getting it. That is hardly hiding in the closet.

So stay in your own lane.

[lilpixieofterror]

These kinds of post, left unresponded to, leave a bad impression - as does Pix's. It's part of the "the poor are poor because they don't work hard enough and/or spend their money frivolously" narrative. There are many reasons for poverty. Some don't work as hard as they could. Some don't manage their money as well as they could. Of the latter, some don't manage their money well due to lack of self-control, and some through lack of knowledge. Take those populations out of the equation and you still have a large body of the poor who are poor due to the circumstances in which they find themselves - caught in a "poverty trap" they are hard-pressed to escape.

The problem with this discussion is so many on the right focus on the first two populations as if they are the entire population of the poor, and so many on the left ignore that those populations exist. In that tension, the truly poor who need support to escape the poverty trap are lost.

And this is my last post on the topic. It is a tangent in this thread.

[lilpixieofterror]

A cell phone itself is probably a necessity in many lines of business these days but I don't think it has to be a smart phone in all cases (like it was for my last job). Practically speaking, if I get stuck in traffic on the way to work, I'm going to need to contact management to avoid getting written up for tardiness, and that's how I'd do it. If you don't use it every day but for emergencies, one of those pay as you go models would probably be okay.

I use mine for work a lot, but few will need the latest and greatest to meet their needs. Most can get along with cheaper models, older models, or models only for calls/text.

[rogue06]

Interestingly this was a philosophy reiterated in Stanley's The Millionaire Next Door: The Surprising Secrets of America's Wealthy. They forgoed vacations, new cars, dining out and buying the latest gadget/toy and fashion.

[oxmixmudd]

One can have a cell phone, without having an iPhone 11 Pro or a Galaxy s20 Ultra. It takes around a year to save 400 dollars total, by saving 30 a month. Not impossible.

I wasn't saying the having latest model was a necessity. I was saying having one of some sort is close to it though in our world. Without it one becomes isolated in many ways.

It is not my experience that people struggling with their money go out and get the latest phone. They usually have a modest smart phone, a few models back.

And one should not assume they are necessarily paying a premium price even if they do have that latest phone. There are various promotions that make it attractive to have a decent one on a budget. Some carriers offer the latest phone 'for free' with the wireless plan itself with a 2 year commitment. So they may end up with a premium phone on a second rate carrier - which is fine if you are in a populated area. And there is also the issue of them becoming obsolete, both in terms of battery life and processing power. So much so that generally 3 years is about all one can expect, so the phone is going to be relatively modern if it is usable.

And I don't think "I'm still using my flip phone I bought 15 years ago" is a fair expectation of the general population.

[carpedm9587]

a few <> most

most governors are happy with Trump. a few aren't. And again, I wasn't even talking to you, you yet again butted into another conversation. I was commenting on Shuny's generalized statement that Trump isn't doing anything but hiding in the closet and pointing out that the governor of California who is a democrat, and normally criticized Trump, has been praising him. California is one of the hardest hit states and need a lot of help and they are getting it. That is hardly hiding in the closet.

So stay in your own lane.

Sorry Sparko - you're posting on a public forum. If you want to keep discussion private, there is a mechanism for doing that. I'll comment on and respond to whatever strikes my fancy, as do most people here.

As for your claim that most governors are happy with Trump, I'd like to see that substantiated. I'm not sure how you could. Some are doing what Newson is doing and publicly praising him so the focus stays on the crisis. Others, like Cuomo and Pritzker are more vocal about their criticisms, and very specific about what they are criticizing. Cuomo has praised Trump for some things and criticized him for others things. That doesn't make him a "bad apple." It makes him a pretty effective leader. And given how the NY situation is being managed, I think that speaks for itself.

[Sparko]

Sorry Sparko - you're posting on a public forum. If you want to keep discussion private, there is a mechanism for doing that. I'll comment on and respond to whatever strikes my fancy, as do most people here.

As for your claim that most governors are happy with Trump, I'd like to see that substantiated. I'm not sure how you could. Some are doing what Newson is doing and publicly praising him so the focus stays on the crisis. Others, like Cuomo and Pritzker are more vocal about their criticisms, and very specific about what they are criticizing. Cuomo has praised Trump for some things and criticized him for others things. That doesn't make him a "bad apple." It makes him a pretty effective leader. And given how the NY situation is being managed, I think that speaks for itself.

none of that has a lick to do with what I was talking about with Shuny.

[Mountain Man]

These kinds of post, left unresponded to, leave a bad impression - as does Pix's. It's part of the "the poor are poor because they don't work hard enough and/or spend their money frivolously" narrative.

Sure, you can burn that straw man if you want. I'll bring the marshmallows.

[carpedm9587]

none of that has a lick to do with what I was talking about with Shuny.

I didn't comment on your discussion with Shuny. I commented on a specific post and a specific claim.