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[Mountain Man]

The problem is they don't see them as bad things.

Then you have those on the other side who think that everything Trump does is bad just because it's Trump doing it, and when we don't agree, they accuse us of supporting the "bad" things that Trump does.

[EvoUK]

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...513#post729513

I thought he meant condemned something he has done as president, not in his personal life.

[carpedm9587]

That would be false. I support Trump neither completely nor without reservation, and I certainly do not "unswervingly support Trump in the bad things".

There is an element of truth to that. What you generally do is explain the bad things away as if they were not bad, or excuse the behavior. You deny lies are actually lies, bullying becomes "defending himself," name calling becomes "just speaking his mind" and "refreshing honesty."

Then you can continue to hold on to the fiction that you do not support Trump in bad things. I leave out "unswervingly" because it's pretty absolute and usually absolutes are untrue.

[Mountain Man]

I thought he meant condemned something he has done as president, not in his personal life.

I disagree with things Trump has done as president, but I don't see them as moral lapses that he should be condemned for. That's the problem with the anti-Trump contingent. It can't be merely a political disagreement. In their minds, Trump must be portrayed as irredeemably evil. It makes any sort of reasoned discussion with them impossible.

[carpedm9587]

Would it be okay if I say that I condemn the things Trump has done in his personal life, but I support the things he has done as president? Is it all or nothing as far as you're concerned, or are we allowed to have a nuanced opinion? I wonder if you agree with every personal decision your employer has ever made, and if you take it upon yourself to condemn him in front of your fellow employees...

Unfortunately, when you are president, the clean line between those things gets pretty muddy.

When Trump tweets - you can dismiss it as "personal life" but legally it is a presidential communication. He has even fired people and given the military orders by way of that avenue, and the courts ordered him to stop blocking people because it constituted an illegal denial of access.

When Trump pays off a stripper to keep the story from coming to light during a campaign, it can be dismissed as "personal" but it is actually about how something personal could impact his election chances.

But there is nothing personal about the steady stream of lies he puts forward as "truth" from the bully pulpit (in all its forms). And there is nothing personal about labeling every political opponent with a childish moniker. And there is nothing personal about publicly encouraging a supporter to do violence and offering to pay his legal bills. And there is nothing personal about putting in place a policy of separating families. And there is nothing personal about publicly and privately asking foreign countries to involve themselves in our elections.

You endorse/support things in Trump that I cannot imagine for one second you endorsing or supporting in Obama or Clinton or Pelosi or Schumer or Schiff. Indeed, you have decried all of them at one time or another for one or more things you consider to be of one or more of these veins.

[Mountain Man]

There is an element of truth to that. What you generally do is explain the bad things away as if they were not bad, or excuse the behavior. You deny lies are actually lies, bullying becomes "defending himself," name calling becomes "just speaking his mind" and "refreshing honesty."

There's shades of the Gish Gallop again.

[EvoUK]

When Trump does finally go, I'm actually not looking forward to the global sigh of relief afterwards. It's what put Obama on his pedestal initially- because thank goodness The Shrub had gone- and I can see it putting the next Democrat politician in a similar position, and far too early for it to be warranted.

[Mountain Man]

Unfortunately, when you are president, the clean line between those things gets pretty muddy.

When Trump tweets - you can dismiss it as "personal life" but legally it is a presidential communication. He has even fired people and given the military orders by way of that avenue, and the courts ordered him to stop blocking people because it constituted an illegal denial of access.

When Trump pays off a stripper to keep the story from coming to light during a campaign, it can be dismissed as "personal" but it is actually about how something personal could impact his election chances.

But there is nothing personal about the steady stream of lies he puts forward as "truth" from the bully pulpit (in all its forms). And there is nothing personal about labeling every political opponent with a childish moniker. And there is nothing personal about publicly encouraging a supporter to do violence and offering to pay his legal bills. And there is nothing personal about putting in place a policy of separating families. And there is nothing personal about publicly and privately asking foreign countries to involve themselves in our elections.

You endorse/support things in Trump that I cannot imagine for one second you endorsing or supporting in Obama or Clinton or Pelosi or Schumer or Schiff. Indeed, you have decried all of them at one time or another for one or more things you consider to be of one or more of these veins.

More Gish Gallop. I'm detecting a pattern.

[carpedm9587]

More Gish Gallop. I'm detecting a pattern.

Yeah... so am I. When you can't answer it - you just label it "Gish Gallop" and handwave as you truck on by...

[carpedm9587]

When Trump does finally go, I'm actually not looking forward to the global sigh of relief afterwards. It's what put Obama on his pedestal initially- because thank goodness The Shrub had gone- and I can see it putting the next Democrat politician in a similar position, and far too early for it to be warranted.

Putting anyone on a pedestal is dangerous - but I agree that dynamic did indeed happen with Obama initially. Somehow, I don't see it happening with Biden, but we'll have to wait and see. I suspect the international community (not to mention a lot of us domestically) will be very relieved to have a steady and experienced hand back on the wheel. The last 3.5 years have been like sailing with a guy who doesn't know diddly about sailing OR boats. It's been an ugly ride...

[Mountain Man]

When Trump does finally go, I'm actually not looking forward to the global sigh of relief afterwards. It's what put Obama on his pedestal initially- because thank goodness The Shrub had gone- and I can see it putting the next Democrat politician in a similar position, and far too early for it to be warranted.

There's always a sigh of relief from roughly 50% of the population whenever the White House changes parties. In my lifetime, there was one when Carter succeeded Ford, when Reagan succeeded Carter, when Clinton succeeded Bush 41, when Bush 43 succeeded Clinton, when Obama succeeded Bush 43, and when Trump succeeded Obama.

[Sparko]

Boy are you guys gonna be disappointed if Trump gets elected for 4 more years.

[Mountain Man]

Yeah... so am I. When you can't answer it - you just label it "Gish Gallop" and handwave as you truck on by...

Do you seriously expect me to waste my time addressing every one of your "many specious arguments, half-truths, and misrepresentations"? Please, I'm not as dumb as I look.

[carpedm9587]

Do you seriously expect me to waste my time addressing every one of your "many specious arguments, half-truths, and misrepresentations"? Please, I'm not as dumb as I look.

Oh...I think you might be.


Seriously, MM - I posted some outrageous thing Trump had done a couple of weeks ago and your response was "well done." I can't find the post now, but I do recall being floored that anyone would commend such an action.

But then again, you are somewhat renown for taking the most negative aspects of the ministry of Jesus of Nazareth and using ti to justify some pretty ugly behavior on your own part, so

[lilpixieofterror]

No hypocrisy was pointed out, Pix, so I have no clue what this refers to.

Congratulations on yet another (failed) attempt to read my mind...

...and predict the future. How you think ANY of this passes for rational argument is beyond me.

This is proceeding down the usual useless path, so Ill leave the last word to you unless you ask a rational question I have not already responded to.