Coronavirus Outbreak...

[firstfloor]

The risk of being bumped off by covid-19 doubles for every 7 years of age.

[oxmixmudd]

This is very hopeful:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/14/healt...ing/index.html

Source: above

On Friday, Dr. Mangala Narasimhan received an urgent call. A man in his 40s with Covid-19 was in a dire situation, and her colleague wanted her to come the intensive care unit at Long Island Jewish Hospital to see if he needed to be put on life support.

Before I come over there, Narasimhan told the other doctor, try turning the patient over onto his stomach and see if that helps. Narasimhan didn't need to go the ICU. The flip worked.
Doctors are finding that placing the sickest coronavirus patients on their stomachs -- called prone positioning - helps increase the amount of oxygen that's getting to their lungs.


"We're saving lives with this, one hundred percent," said Narasimhan, the regional director for critical care at Northwell Health, which owns 23 hospitals in New York. "It's such a simple thing to do, and we've seen remarkable improvement. We can see it for every single patient."

© Copyright Original Source

[Sparko]

This is very hopeful:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/14/healt...ing/index.html

Source: above

On Friday, Dr. Mangala Narasimhan received an urgent call. A man in his 40s with Covid-19 was in a dire situation, and her colleague wanted her to come the intensive care unit at Long Island Jewish Hospital to see if he needed to be put on life support.

Before I come over there, Narasimhan told the other doctor, try turning the patient over onto his stomach and see if that helps. Narasimhan didn't need to go the ICU. The flip worked.
Doctors are finding that placing the sickest coronavirus patients on their stomachs -- called prone positioning - helps increase the amount of oxygen that's getting to their lungs.


"We're saving lives with this, one hundred percent," said Narasimhan, the regional director for critical care at Northwell Health, which owns 23 hospitals in New York. "It's such a simple thing to do, and we've seen remarkable improvement. We can see it for every single patient."

© Copyright Original Source

Wait, you are touting something anecdotal. We need to commission some clinical trials to make sure this works!

[oxmixmudd]

Wait, you are touting something anecdotal. We need to commission some clinical trials to make sure this works!

I would think you'd be happy such a thing had been discovered.

There is a huge difference between recommending success from a simple position change (or trying it) and putting drugs in people off label without knowing the potential side effects in the environment of that same off-label use, especially when that drug has known, serious to fatal, side effects. Fortunately, the medical professionals doing the work are mostly aware of this difference.

Nevertheless, the effect of proning wrt COVID-19 are being formally studied. From the same link:

Source: previous link

In their clinical trial, patients are being randomly assigned to be on their stomachs or backs, according to David Vines, chair of the cardiopulmonary sciences department at Rush.
"We'll see if proning helps, and if so, how long should they be in the prone position," Vines said.

© Copyright Original Source

[Sparko]

I would think you'd be happy such a thing had been discovered.

There is a huge difference between recommending success from a simple position change (or trying it) and putting drugs in people off label without knowing the potential side effects in the environment of that same off-label use, especially when that drug has known, serious to fatal, side effects. Fortunately, the medical professionals doing the work are mostly aware of this difference.

Nevertheless, the effect of proning wrt COVID-19 are being formally studied. From the same link:

Source: previous link

In their clinical trial, patients are being randomly assigned to be on their stomachs or backs, according to David Vines, chair of the cardiopulmonary sciences department at Rush.
"We'll see if proning helps, and if so, how long should they be in the prone position," Vines said.

© Copyright Original Source

Personally I find it harder to breath with my face in a pillow.

[Mountain Man]

Well, I'd assume the patient would turn his head to the side.

[carpedm9587]

I'm a 'heathen' so my opinion is of little value with regards to what I do or do not agree with, but I have found this whole sorry episode over the last 3+ years to be mildly confusing.

Originally, Trump was the result of 'least worst option' as far as many people on here were concerned - the SCOTUS being their key issue ('Hillary isn't POTUS, SCOTUS isn't Hillary's'). I do actually understand the reasoning for that- though naturally I disagree with the values concerned in wishing it.

What I don't understand is the same people who voted Trump as the least worst option have spent the last 3+ years defending him over actions that they clearly would have jumped all over an ideological political opponent for - evidenced by the anger over many of Obama's actions during his tenure which don't reach anywhere near the level of Trump's.

There has been some half-hearted 'I wish he wouldn't tweet so much/he can be a jack-ass sometimes' admissions, but I would have thought that voting him in to score a SCOTUS position doesn't stop them from then hold him to account for actions outside of that. I'd have actually pictured more posts such as that from Ox over the last 3+ years instead.

Bravo. And the responses will be interesting...

[Mountain Man]

It seems the IHME models have been slightly off. Just slightly...

Unites-States.jpg

"It should be noted that these expert models are based on full mitigation, based on what did indeed happen, which was basically a full shutdown of the economy by way of a lockdown. And these models are still horribly, terribly wrong."

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...arming-models/

[oxmixmudd]

Personally I find it harder to breath with my face in a pillow.

Do you really suppose that 'prone' in a hospital setting means that they are face down in a pillow lying flat?

https://emcrit.org/wp-content/upload...us-proning.pdf

[carpedm9587]

It seems the IHME models have been slightly off. Just slightly...

[ATTACH=CONFIG]44133[/ATTACH]

"It should be noted that these expert models are based on full mitigation, based on what did indeed happen, which was basically a full shutdown of the economy by way of a lockdown. And these models are still horribly, terribly wrong."

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...arming-models/

Before swallowing this hook line and sinker, I recommend that the readers explore how the IMHE actually creates their projections and what the current projections look like. As usual, Breitbart has taken a few elements of truth (these were indeed prior projections) and framed them in a misleading way. And the claim that "these expert models are based on full mitigation, based on what did indeed happen, which was basically a full shutdown of the economy by way of a lockdown," are simply misleading, if not outright false. "Full mitigation," as far as I can tell has never been part of their language because they know it can never be attained (and still has NOT been attained). And they have consistently provided a range of error for their projections that looks very much like the cone that extends outward from a weather service prediction of the path a hurricane will take, which widens as it predicts further out due to the intrinsic uncertainty of future projections. You can see an example of that at the bottom of their current projection page, which projects deaths. The current projection is for about 70K deaths with a possible range of 50-175K deaths.

[oxmixmudd]

Before swallowing this hook line and sinker, I recommend that the readers explore how the IMHE actually creates their projections and what the current projections look like. As usual, Breitbart has taken a few elements of truth (these were indeed prior projections) and framed them in a misleading way. And the claim that "these expert models are based on full mitigation, based on what did indeed happen, which was basically a full shutdown of the economy by way of a lockdown," are simply misleading, if not outright false. "Full mitigation," as far as I can tell has never been part of their language because they know it can never be attained (and still has NOT been attained). And they have consistently provided a range of error for their projections that looks very much like the cone that extends outward from a weather service prediction of the path a hurricane will take, which widens as it predicts further out due to the intrinsic uncertainty of future projections. You can see an example of that at the bottom of their current projection page, which projects deaths. The current projection is for about 70K deaths with a possible range of 50-175K deaths.

Due to a combination of extreme political bias and mortifyingly poor understanding of mathematics and science, I wonder if it is even possible for many here to even understand what you have just pointed out. I say that because the only objective means to deal with many of these issues is knowledge and a commitment to truth. Yet they seems on so many levels to be that last two things that are ever brought to the table in these discussions.

[Sparko]

Do you really suppose that 'prone' in a hospital setting means that they are face down in a pillow lying flat?

https://emcrit.org/wp-content/upload...us-proning.pdf

I was making a joke. sheesh.

[oxmixmudd]

I was making a joke. sheesh.

So, should I consider the other derogatory replies towards me you've made today as also 'just making a joke'? Exactly what kernel of mutual trust and respect have you built up over the course of our discussions today that will allow me to determine when you are 'joking' vs when you are being cutting or derogatory?

[firstfloor]

The virus is giving Kristi Noem a good kicking.

Opening up the economy = let it rip.

[Mountain Man]

Before swallowing this hook line and sinker, I recommend that the readers explore how the IMHE actually creates their projections and what the current projections look like. As usual, Breitbart has taken a few elements of truth (these were indeed prior projections) and framed them in a misleading way. And the claim that "these expert models are based on full mitigation, based on what did indeed happen, which was basically a full shutdown of the economy by way of a lockdown," are simply misleading, if not outright false. "Full mitigation," as far as I can tell has never been part of their language because they know it can never be attained (and still has NOT been attained). And they have consistently provided a range of error for their projections that looks very much like the cone that extends outward from a weather service prediction of the path a hurricane will take, which widens as it predicts further out due to the intrinsic uncertainty of future projections. You can see an example of that at the bottom of their current projection page, which projects deaths. The current projection is for about 70K deaths with a possible range of 50-175K deaths.

Translation: "I don't dispute the facts. I just don't like how they're presented!"