Originally posted by JimL
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If Texas turns blue in 2020 should the Democrats gerrymander?
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Originally posted by DivineOb View PostOne proposal I heard of for redistricting which I like the sound of is the following
1) Party A draws up proposed districts
2) Party B chooses one of the districts to make permanent
3) Party B redraws the remaining districts
4) Party A chooses one of the districts to make permanent
5) Party A redraws the remaining districts
etc.
It would have to be war gamed out a few times and see how it measures up compared to other approaches but intuitively it seems hard to 'cheat' at since you are never the one picking the districts which you drew. I think you could come up with pretty simple ways to extend it to more than two parties as well if that ever became a realistic issue in this country. Of course, I'm easy to please since we have close the worst possible system at the moment.
SCOTUS had the opportunity to establish a standard with the WI/CT/MD case last year but, predictably, declined to even come close. But any state can establish such guidelines, using one or more mathematical models, and use any method it wants to get there.
--Sam"I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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In Michigan in 2018, for example, a ballot initiative passed to grant redistricting power to an independent board comprised of 13 MI citizens randomly chosen: four affiliated with Democrats, four affiliated with Republicans, and five unaffiliated. I do not believe the ballot initiative established a standard to measure the extremity of gerrymandering in whatever map is chosen but such tools will be available to the commission.
--Sam"I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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Originally posted by Sam View PostThere's no need to reinvent the wheel: numerous states have implemented different ways to create non-partisan redistricting. What matters is that the outcomes of those methods pass the mathematical models created (by people like Sam Wang at the Princeton Gerrymandering Project) to measure the extremity of partisan gerrymandering. It's possible to model "natural" gerrymandering against partisan gerrymandering and test whether a map is fairly districted.
SCOTUS had the opportunity to establish a standard with the WI/CT/MD case last year but, predictably, declined to even come close. But any state can establish such guidelines, using one or more mathematical models, and use any method it wants to get there.
--Sam
Yeah, I know, I'm a cynic -- I think both sides are simply too territorial.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostWell, whether we see it or not it's something that needs be done. Perhaps when republicans lose their power in state legislatures, they'll come around as well.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostJim, you really need to come to the reality that it's not only Republicans who are power hungry and want their own party to keep or gain control. It's just totally ignorant to hold that position.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostI understand that, it was a democrat that came up with the whole idea of gerrymandering in the first place,
but right now it is democrats who are arguing for neutral redistricting commisions and republicans who have gone bonkers with gerrymandering,
as well as other voter suppression tactics. It's natural that the party in power will take advantage of the loops they find in the system, but the party in power is going to have to agree with achieving a remedy.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostI understand that, it was a democrat that came up with the whole idea of gerrymandering in the first place,
Fun fact: While "gerrymandering" (named after him) is pronounced with a soft G, Gerry's name was pronounced with a hard G.Last edited by Terraceth; 01-20-2020, 12:45 PM.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostSo, think about that ---- one opens pandora's box, then gets really upset when the other takes advantage....
Stated differently, should we not learn from our mistakes? Is not getting "a taste of your own medicine" a very effective teacher?
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostJim, you really need to come to the reality that it's not only Republicans who are power hungry and want their own party to keep or gain control. It's just totally ignorant to hold that position.
"I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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Originally posted by DivineOb View PostAs you're not doubt aware the precision and effectiveness with which gerrymandering can be implemented today bears no resemblance to the gerrymandering of even the recent past.
I could call the Second Amendment "Pandora's Box" and thereby justify the raising of irregular military units.
Stated differently, should we not learn from our mistakes?
Is not getting "a taste of your own medicine" a very effective teacher?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Sam View PostWhile both parties engage in voter suppression, both sides do not do so equally.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Cow Poke, it's just going to be really hard for Democrats to listen to Republicans asking them 'please don't do what we've done for the past couple of years'. It could be done, but it would involve a bit of coming to the cross for the other side. And I just don't see that happening.
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostCow Poke, it's just going to be really hard for Democrats to listen to Republicans asking them 'please don't do what we've done for the past couple of years'.
It could be done, but it would involve a bit of coming to the cross for the other side. And I just don't see that happening.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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