Originally posted by simplicio
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
Civics 101 Guidelines
Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less
Black Americans are coming home to the GOP
Collapse
X
-
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
-
Originally posted by simplicio View PostMost southerners were never Dixiecrats because the Dixiecrats never attempted to organize a party system. It never had anyone on local ballots. It was over the issue of Dem support for civil rights, and would have moved its support to the Republicans if they had fielded a candidate which had stood firm on segregation. Dewey and Eisenhower did not.
Truth may have a habit of coming out, but there always will be people reject the truth, preferring the more comfortable illusions.
Point STILL STANDS that the South did not start reliably voting Republican until the 1990's with the shift beginning in the mid-eighties."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
Comment
-
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostNo need to do anything foolish"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
Comment
-
Originally posted by simplicio View PostI don't think in Alabama is racist, it never has been. George Wallace stated that he was not a racist, and numerous evangelicals noted that Wallace was not racist. He just thought desegregation violated the subsidiarity prerogative of the local electorate. Other than that, Wallace would have gladly removed the barriers to integration. He made a stand for fiscal responsibility when he proposed to turn away federal HEW funds.
The poor white Alabamans, laboring under the heavy yoke of Democratic Party tyranny, forced to accept all those racial policies against their will. Only when they voted Republican could they truly say "Free at last, free at last, thank God almighty we are free at last"
So, wanna tell us now about Goat Hill's late 19th Century push for the change in constitution and its populous roots? We'll wait while you consult Wiki...."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
Comment
-
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostAll sarcasm aside, you do know that historians and biographers tend to believe that Wallace was not racist but did what he thought was necessary to hold onto power.
And I'm sure that it is just a coincidence that at the same time that the Democrats lost their stranglehold on the South that the region began to prosper economically."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
Comment
-
Originally posted by simplicio View PostBut any historian with an ounce of integrity? Maybe an historian who is a neo Confederate intellectual proponent of Lost Cause mythology. There are even historian who see the NRA's founding as protection of black freedmen fro Klan terrorism.
The only way Wallace was not racist is if segregation, codified into law, is not racist, if denial of black citizens the right to vote is not racist, if separate (but "equal") health care is not racist.
Any links? I think it goes without saying that Wallace was simcere when he made his famous "Segregation forever".
Edit to add: I am open to the possibility hat his later repentance was genuine, but I do have doubts.
Public school textbooks.
The Freedom Riders in Montgomery - the accounts of Wallace's reaction to the Montgomery PD's betrayal are telling.
The ever famous schoolhouse door which began and ended peacefully - because Wallace understood how to give voice to the frustration and diffuse it rather than inflame it.
Wallace sincerely wanted to get elected - but his actual work in office tells a far more complex story. In 1982 the voters were still very much in living memory of Wallace's career. So were they all stupid or do they know something you don't.
Maybe instead of blanket condemnation of people you don't know or understand about things long past ya might wanna look at why homicide is the leading cause of death in young black men."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
Comment
-
Originally posted by simplicio View PostSeems no one actually supported segregation. I wonder how it just happened?
But we do have an answer, the racist Democrats imposed on the hapless voters of those states.
And the reality doesn't fit nicely into a Wiki article - there's more to it than the simplistic label 'racist' can explain."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
Comment
-
Originally posted by Teallaura View PostIf you actually care, look into the events leading up to the 1901 Constitution. Like most political matters, power, not race, was the real force at work.
And the reality doesn't fit nicely into a Wiki article - there's more to it than the simplistic label 'racist' can explain.
http://www.encyclopediaofalabama.org/article/h-3030
Comment
-
Originally posted by Teallaura View PostThanks - life long resident excepting four years in New Mexico for college. Thanks for playing but I know my home better than you do.
While you point out that truth has a habit of coming out, and I may indeed be stupid (as you so kindly pointed out), the unique spin on the history of southern attitudes toward civil rights is problematic.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Teallaura View Post1982. Seriously, how stupid do you think black Alabamians are?
Public school textbooks.
The Freedom Riders in Montgomery - the accounts of Wallace's reaction to the Montgomery PD's betrayal are telling.
The ever famous schoolhouse door which began and ended peacefully - because Wallace understood how to give voice to the frustration and diffuse it rather than inflame it.
Wallace sincerely wanted to get elected - but his actual work in office tells a far more complex story. In 1982 the voters were still very much in living memory of Wallace's career. So were they all stupid or do they know something you don't.
Maybe instead of blanket condemnation of people you don't know or understand about things long past ya might wanna look at why homicide is the leading cause of death in young black men.
Wallace stood in the schoolhouse door and realized that the hand he chose was not a winner, Kennedy usurped his authority and federalized the Alabama National Guard. The famous stand in the schoolhouse door occurred June of 63, almost a year after the violent confrontation at the integration of Ole Miss.
Your attempt at painting Wallace a skilled politician navigating between extremes (who was not really racist, as Rouge inferred with the authority of "some historians") is based on a bizarre interpretation of events.
Kennedy (via the US Attorney General) presented the implied threat of disbarment, and the obstruction of justice. The events of the previous several years presented justice, southern style, in an unfavorable light across the globe.
Wallace, in contrast to Kennedy, saw justice and self determination for Alabamans meant excluding negroes from full citizenship and dignity. And Wallace represented the very Christian population of Alabama in the Bible Belt.
But then again, since I am likely just plain stupid, we ought to let you, and your ilk, write the history textbooks.
Southern heritage is not about hate?
Comment
-
Originally posted by Teallaura View PostIf you actually care, look into the events leading up to the 1901 Constitution. Like most political matters, power, not race, was the real force at work.
And the reality doesn't fit nicely into a Wiki article - there's more to it than the simplistic label 'racist' can explain.
I note that here you acknowledge multiple and concurrent forces. But elsewhere, the common rejoinder is "but the Dems", as if the electorate did not support the policies of their elected representatives.
If one cannot look at Wallace and not apply the label of racist, then nothing is racist.
Comment
-
Was what George Wallace said and did evil in the sight of the Lord?
The obscure and intangible elements hidden in sin are not always easy to grasp, the interaction of conscience, will, and sensitivity are too often in contact with dark forces.
The question and the following was from the document by JPII, reconciliation and penance. I know Christians here are shy about bringing in the Christian faith into discussions on real world problems, but I think that view is ultimately destructive. And pretty much antichristian.
Comment
-
Originally posted by JimL View PostThe only time the dems get tagged with racism is when republicans react to their pointing out the racism that has found a home in the republican party. It isn't that republicans themselves are all racists, obviously not, but he KKK, the Alt right, the white supremecists, the neo-nazis, the anti-semites are all quite comfortable in todays republican party. Any idea why that is the case?
Comment
-
Originally posted by JimL View Post"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
Comment
-
Originally posted by simplicio View PostYes your knowledge of the State of Alabama is evident on these pages.
While you point out that truth has a habit of coming out, and I may indeed be stupid (as you so kindly pointed out), the unique spin on the history of southern attitudes toward civil rights is problematic.
You further ignore the poverty endemic to the South following Reconstruction. You want race as a simple solution to complex economic woes. Elitists preserved their power by feeding on the fear of economic competition - with some horrendously tragic, even if somewhat isolated, results - a pattern repeated for decades. That was driven more by a fear of populism than race - because poor whites and poor blacks had far more in common with each other. Do you really think poll taxes were only prohibitive to blacks?
How much do you know about the failures of desegregation? About the effects on black owned business, the black (people's) economy? What about the skyrocket in black dropouts? Don't use Wiki - what happened in those instances? School busing? Decline in educational standards? The rise in welfare dependency? The loss of the nascent black middle class?
Jim Crow should never have been instituted in the first place - and the nation as a whole bears that guilt with the decision in Plessy. But your 'Cannonball Run' understanding of the South glosses over just how bad the cure was relative to the disease. School closures and busing left a black population barely literate and far less prepared for the changing economy of the Seventies. Integration forced them to compete with more economically stable whites - and worse, not just in the South.
Take a look at the tensions in California as middle class white college students destroyed black access to affordable housing - and introduced drug culture. The CIA did nothing - even had they wished to, the hippies were doing a much better job destroying black economic stability. Watts was in California, not Alabama. Similar forces were at work in the North - both places blacks had fled to in times of economic crisis were now themselves in crisis and the social politics worked against blacks.
The introduction of welfare was the final blow to what had been an active, sometimes thriving, black economy. They couldn't compete with established white owned business and neither could compete with the growth of corporate franchise. Families lost businesses - including farms - and were thrust at welfare - providing there was no man in the household. Blacks suffered disproportionately under the unemployment, inflation and economic chaos of the Seventies because of the very progressive policies supposedly put in place for their benefit.
And the South wouldn't vote reliably Republican for two more decades - and the liberal lie of racial progressivism remains far more problematic in real terms than historic attitudes you never bothered to understand."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by seer, Yesterday, 11:40 AM
|
2 responses
33 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Diogenes
Yesterday, 03:28 PM
|
||
Started by CivilDiscourse, Yesterday, 06:30 AM
|
15 responses
81 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by seanD
Yesterday, 04:20 PM
|
||
Started by Cow Poke, 06-03-2024, 11:24 AM
|
25 responses
146 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Cow Poke
Yesterday, 04:13 PM
|
||
Started by carpedm9587, 06-03-2024, 09:13 AM
|
51 responses
275 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Diogenes
Today, 02:36 AM
|
||
Started by Cow Poke, 06-02-2024, 09:15 AM
|
31 responses
151 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by rogue06
Yesterday, 08:12 PM
|
Comment