Christianity Today Op Ed

[Mountain Man]

I agree with much of this. The wealthy have the means to game the system in ways that the rest do not. And the wealthy also have greater means of actual cheating. And no, it's not okay to have an unfair advantage or to actually cheat. We should do something about this.

But taxation won't solve it. The wealthy have one very big ace - mobility. They can not only move to another state; they can also move to another country.

I've seen charts indicating that the US government collects about 17 percent of GDP regardless of the tax rate. If that's true then mucking around with the tax rates has no useful effect.

I'm beginning to believe that the real reform is going to have to be in the financial markets and it's not going to be pretty.

As I told Jaecp in another thread, the real solution is for the government to spend less, not tax more.

[oxmixmudd]

The discussion was about Charlottesville and false claims that Trump called Neo-Nazis "very l fine people" and Sam's ridiculous insistence that there is no distinction between peaceful protestors and those itching for a fight. You suggest Jaecp has firsthand knowledge, but he wasn't at Charlottesville to the best of my knowledge, so...

No, the sub thread that this conversation revolves around is a general discussion of how antifa behaves and if they vs right wing groups tend to be the cause of violence at demonstrations where both are present. And jaecp has first hand evidence that contradicts the breitbart etc party line on that issue. And that first hand evidence is being trashed in lieu of what is being disseminated by clearly biased sources.

[Mountain Man]

No, the sub thread that this conversation revolves around is a general discussion of how antifa behaves and if they vs right wing groups tend to be the cause of violence at demonstrations where both are present. And jaecp has first hand evidence that contradicts the breitbart etc party line on that issue. And that first hand evidence is being trashed in lieu of what is being disseminated by clearly biased sources.

Because Jaecp isn't a biased source.

[lilpixieofterror]

No, the sub thread that this conversation revolves around is a general discussion of how antifa behaves and if they vs right wing groups tend to be the cause of violence at demonstrations where both are present. And jaecp has first hand evidence that contradicts the breitbart etc party line on that issue. And that first hand evidence is being trashed in lieu of what is being disseminated by clearly biased sources.

[Mountain Man]

It's not for nothing that they've been deemed a terrorist organization by our government.

[lilpixieofterror]

It's not for nothing that they've been deemed a terrorist organization by our government.

[oxmixmudd]

No pix, MM. You are summarily ignoring his experience as it is expressed here without looking into his claims. Without doing some legwork to find out if he has a valid point. That was my point in asking if it ever occurred to you that your biased sources might be misleading you.

That question should be being asked, and you should be trying to determine its answer. Both of you are thinking in very tribal, irrational ways on this. Instead we should be looking at what he knows and if that is representative ofca larger misrepresentation of this group.

[lilpixieofterror]

No pix, MM. You are summarily ignoring his experience as it is expressed here without looking into his claims. Without doing some legwork to find out if he has a valid point. That was my point in asking if it ever occurred to you that your biased sources might be misleading you.

That question should be being asked, and you should be trying to determine its answer. Both of you are thinking in very tribal, irrational ways on this. Instead we should be looking at what he knows and if that is representative ofca larger misrepresentation of this group.

[oxmixmudd]

Can you for 5 seconds put a hold on your judgmental, hyper critical, over the top mouth and just listen before you mouth off? You spend every friggin day on this site jumping to conclusions and bashing anyone that so much as offers an alternate opinion.

jaecp is offering a different view of antifa, based on his experience. You are correct in that it is quite possible his experience does not necessarily account for the whole. And yet, if antifa is what the breitbarts of the world claim it is (and you,MM as their proxy), he should not be able to truthfully own the opinion he is expressing. What that means, as is so often true, is that there may well be a better accounting of what antifa is.

I found this on the ADL (Anti-Defamation-league) website on antifa. And this text presents an accounting of antifa that could account for both points of view:

https://www.adl.org/resources/backgr...who-are-antifa

Source: ADL above

To date, there have not been any known antifa-related murders.

© Copyright Original Source

One of the things the ADL website points out is that antifa is based on the idea that if a more aggressive push back against Nazi related activities in Germany had existed, fascism would not have been able to take hold.

Source: above

Their ideology is rooted in the assumption that the Nazi party would never have been able to come to power in Germany if people had more aggressively fought them in the streets in the 1920s and 30s. Most antifa come from the anarchist movement or from the far left, though since the 2016 presidential election, some people with more mainstream political backgrounds have also joined their ranks.

© Copyright Original Source

But - ADL rightly points out:

Source: above

All forms of antifa violence are problematic.

© Copyright Original Source

If you read their summary more completely, Jaecp's experience with them may well be more the norm, with violent outbreaks due to their embracement of the potential good of violence to stop greater violence more towards the abnormal, or possibly the exaggeration by the more violent white supremacists and fascist leaning sources.

I am a supporter of MLK's non-violence credo. I could never support any group that embraces violence as part of its expression of its ideas. Nevertheless, I think the ADL summary looks to be a far more balanced assessment than the wild-eyed defamatory posts you two have conjured up in the last two pages.

[lilpixieofterror]

Can you for 5 seconds put a hold on your judgmental, hyper critical, over the top mouth and just listen before you mouth off? You spend every friggin day on this site jumping to conclusions and bashing anyone that so much as offers an alternate opinion.

jaecp is offering a different view of antifa, based on his experience. You are correct in that it is quite possible his experience does not necessarily account for the whole. And yet, if antifa is what the breitbarts of the world claim it is (and you,MM as their proxy), he should not be able to truthfully own the opinion he is expressing. What that means, as is so often true, is that there may well be a better accounting of what antifa is.

I found this on the ADL (Anti-Defamation-league) website on antifa. And this text presents an accounting of antifa that could account for both points of view:

https://www.adl.org/resources/backgr...who-are-antifa

Source: ADL above

To date, there have not been any known antifa-related murders.

© Copyright Original Source

One of the things the ADL website points out is that antifa is based on the idea that if a more aggressive push back against Nazi related activities in Germany had existed, fascism would not have been able to take hold.

Source: above

Their ideology is rooted in the assumption that the Nazi party would never have been able to come to power in Germany if people had more aggressively fought them in the streets in the 1920s and 30s. Most antifa come from the anarchist movement or from the far left, though since the 2016 presidential election, some people with more mainstream political backgrounds have also joined their ranks.

© Copyright Original Source

But - ADL rightly points out:

Source: above

All forms of antifa violence are problematic.

© Copyright Original Source

If you read their summary more completely, Jaecp's experience with them may well be more the norm, with violent outbreaks due to their embracement of the potential good of violence to stop greater violence more towards the abnormal, or possibly the exaggeration by the more violent white supremacists and fascist leaning sources.

I am a supporter of MLK's non-violence credo. I could never support any group that embraces violence as part of its expression of its ideas. nevertheless, I think the ADL summary looks to be a far more balanced assessment that the wild-eyed defamatory posts you two have conjured up in the last two pages.

[oxmixmudd]

Pix, my worst day does not exceed your normal one in terms of the degrading, defamatory comments that flow so freely from you.

[lilpixieofterror]

Pix, my worst day does not exceed your normal one in terms of the degrading, defamatory comments that flow so freely from you.

[oxmixmudd]

Quote me where I said that

"What" is a lie pix. This is the segment you are replying to:

jaecp is offering a different view of antifa, based on his experience. You are correct in that it is quite possible his experience does not necessarily account for the whole. And yet, if antifa is what the breitbarts of the world claim it is (and you,MM as their proxy), he should not be able to truthfully own the opinion he is expressing. What that means, as is so often true, is that there may well be a better accounting of what antifa is.

What have I said in that quote that is a lie pix? As far as I can tell, I haven't even accused you of anything, other than expressing an opinion of antifa in line with the opinion of other right wingers.

AS far as I can tell you are in violation of forum policy here. Not only haven't you clearly defined what it is I'm supposed to have lied about, you have not justified that accusation either. You've just called me a liar free an clear.

[oxmixmudd]

Quote me where I said every last one of them is violent

Quote me were I said or implied anyone, including breitbart, said 'every last one of them is violent' in reference to antifa?

[lilpixieofterror]

"What" is a lie pix. This is the segment you are replying to:



What have I said in that quote that is a lie pix? If you can't even point out what it is that is a lie, and then justify that claim, they you have accused me of lying against forum policy.

Sorry Jim, but there is video, photo, and eyewitness evidence showing Antifa members engaging in violent behavior. Shove those fingers in your ears and scream all you want, Jaecp is one person talking about a movement with thousands of people, from coast to coast.