List of Trump's crimes?

[Cow Poke]

Where was Biden cleared? Stopping an investigation is not "clearing". It's kinda like Trump declaring he was "exonerated" because the Mueller report didn't charge him.

Convince me that announcements into Biden and 2016 was in the national interest so we can be in agreement again!

I don't know that they were, or are, and you don't know that they're not. Remember that "presumption of innocence" thing? Somebody has to actually prove Trump's motive.

Here's another factor -- President Zelensky still claims he felt no pressure - no QPQ.

Let's say that you and I have a phone call, and others overhear parts of it, or find out second or third hand that we talked. Word gets out that I threatened I was blackmailing you -- an illegal act.

You voluntarily state there was no blackmail at all - that we were talking, and I made some suggestions, but you never considered it demands or threats or blackmail.....

who do we believe? You and me? Or people who kinda sorta heard the call, or parts of it, or reports of it.

[Mountain Man]

Where was Biden cleared? Stopping an investigation is not "clearing". It's kinda like Trump declaring he was "exonerated" because the Mueller report didn't charge him.



I don't know that they were, or are, and you don't know that they're not. Remember that "presumption of innocence" thing? Somebody has to actually prove Trump's motive.

Here's another factor -- President Zelensky still claims he felt no pressure - no QPQ.

Let's say that you and I have a phone call, and others overhear parts of it, or find out second or third hand that we talked. Word gets out that I threatened I was blackmailing you -- an illegal act.

You voluntarily state there was no blackmail at all - that we were talking, and I made some suggestions, but you never considered it demands or threats or blackmail.....

who do we believe? You and me? Or people who kinda sorta heard the call, or parts of it, or reports of it.

The narrative is that Zelensky is lying because he is subordinate to Trump (absurd on its face), or is intimidated by him (a claim that would actually have to be proven).

[Cow Poke]

The narrative is that Zelensky is lying because he is subordinate to Trump (absurd on its face), or is intimidated by him (a claim that would actually have to be proven).

Of course, because he can't POSSIBLY be telling the truth if it doesn't implicate Trump.

[Mountain Man]

And while some polls are claiming that 50% of the country is supposedly behind the push for impeachment, Republicans continue to break fundraising records.

https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2019...ion-like-this/

[rogue06]

Of course, because he can't POSSIBLY be telling the truth if it doesn't implicate Trump.

And if what he says exonerates Trump then obviously he's in on it and corrupt.

[Cow Poke]

And while some polls are claiming that 50% of the country is supposedly behind the push for impeachment, Republicans continue to break fundraising records.

https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2019...ion-like-this/

IMPEACH, IMPEACH, IMPEACH!!!! It's WORKING, Democrats!!! Full speed ahead!!!

[Cow Poke]

And if what he says exonerates Trump then obviously he's in on it and corrupt.

If he could have just come to the impeachment farce as a witness, Schiff could correct him and instruct him what his actual testimony should be!

[rogue06]

IMPEACH, IMPEACH, IMPEACH!!!! It's WORKING, Democrats!!! Full speed ahead!!!

And you Dems in red districts, don't worry about a thing. 2010 was a fluke. The only ones who might be adversely affected are folks in districts where... well, you.

[oxmixmudd]

So I offer up a discussion one element of the issues regarding this situation with no attacks on any person, and you respond per the above. Perhaps you should take that to heart as to identifying your part of the problem.

[oxmixmudd]

President Zelensky is not subordinate to President Trump.

I will agree there is no direct or official 'chain of command' between Trump and Zelinsky and that 'subordinate' doesn't apply in that literal sense, Zelensky is 'subordinate' to Trump in that Trumps hold the keys to his and more importantly his country's relationship with the US and NATO. In this case, Trump decides if there is a White House meeting, which Zelensky needs from a publicity standpoint in terms of what it means to Russia understanding the US is supporting Ukraine. And he needs the US Aid, which Trump put on hold, per Mulvaney's words, as a condition on corruption investigations.

[lilpixieofterror]

So I offer up a discussion one element of the issues regarding this situation with no attacks on any person, and you respond per the above. Perhaps you should take that to heart as to identifying your part of the problem.

[oxmixmudd]

By the way, he's repeating his claim that he felt no pressure....

But since he is beholden to Trump (even more so since the likelhood Trump will actually be removed from office seems very low) those statements have to be taken with a grain of salt. They are what he must say right now, so their truth can't be discerned. If he maintains that as the truth when he has nothing to gain by maintaining that claim, then you have a point. Right now, it just doesn't mean much.


However, if you think about it - he is repeating the claims. Why? Who does he want to hear it? And why must it be said again? And that my friend is actually evidence he IS under pressure, because he is trying very hard to make sure Trump is appeased.

[oxmixmudd]

So - pointing out you often respond to my attempts at rational discussion like you did in this post and the previous post is 'attacking' you?

[Cow Poke]

But since he is beholden to Trump (even more so since the likelhood Trump will actually be removed from office seems very low) those statements have to be taken with a grain of salt. They are what he must say right now, so their truth can't be discerned. If he maintains that as the truth when he has nothing to gain by maintaining that claim, then you have a point. Right now, it just doesn't mean much.

Yes, that's the current talking point, it appears.

However, if you think about it - he is repeating the claims. Why? Who does he want to hear it? And why must it be said again? And that my friend is actually evidence he IS under pressure, because he is trying very hard to make sure Trump is appeased.

Calls for speculation, and lots of it.

[lilpixieofterror]

So - pointing out you often respond to my attempts at rational discussion like you did in this post and the previous post is 'attacking' you?