Take This Impeachment And Shove It...

[Sam]

Well, there ya have it! Obama set the precedent!

I know you're trolling and we've covered this before but the Obama administration provided thousands of documents and allowed numerous officials, including AG Holder, to testify in the Fast & Furious investigations.

If Obama set the standard, Trump is nowhere close to meeting it.

--Sam

[Cow Poke]

I know you're trolling and we've covered this before but the Obama administration provided thousands of documents

You're familiar with the term "document dump"?

and allowed numerous officials, including AG Holder, to testify in the Fast & Furious investigations.

If Obama set the standard, Trump is nowhere close to meeting it.

--Sam

From less than two years ago, May 2018...


BREAKING: DOJ Announces Fast and Furious Documents Withheld by Eric Holder Will Be Released

The Department of Justice announced Wednesday additional documents related to the Operation Fast and Furious scandal during the Obama administration will be released to the House Oversight Committee. The documents were previously withheld by Attorney General Eric Holder, who was voted in civil and criminal contempt of Congress for refusing to turn them over. President Obama invoked executive privilege in June 2012 to prevent their release just hours before the contempt vote was held.

Yay, AG Holder!

[rogue06]

A politician releasing "thousands of documents" is an old dodge used by both sides. What always gets left out is often these thousands of documents conspicuously exclude ones that are pertinent including ones specifically requested.

[rogue06]

I know you're trolling and we've covered this before but the Obama administration provided thousands of documents and allowed numerous officials, including AG Holder, to testify in the Fast & Furious investigations.

If Obama set the standard, Trump is nowhere close to meeting it.

--Sam

During the collusion delusion Trump ordered that every single document involved be preserved so that absolutely everything was turned over. Likewise he made everyone without exception available to Mueller and his staff. He claimed Executive Privilege on nothing. While he's followed a different course with the impeachment, I cannot think of another politician who has ever done that.

[Sam]

You're familiar with the term "document dump"?



From less than two years ago, May 2018...


BREAKING: DOJ Announces Fast and Furious Documents Withheld by Eric Holder Will Be Released

The Department of Justice announced Wednesday additional documents related to the Operation Fast and Furious scandal during the Obama administration will be released to the House Oversight Committee. The documents were previously withheld by Attorney General Eric Holder, who was voted in civil and criminal contempt of Congress for refusing to turn them over. President Obama invoked executive privilege in June 2012 to prevent their release just hours before the contempt vote was held.

Yay, AG Holder!

We know it won't happen but any of you could easily remember or learn about the Obama administration's compliance with congressional investigations into Wide Receiver/Fast & Furious over many years and see just how completely different that response was compared to the Trump administration's attempt to block all witnesses and withhold all documents.

For a couple of guys who were just trying to roast someone yesterday for 'Whataboutisms', this is quite embarrassing.

--Sam

[Cow Poke]

A politician releasing "thousands of documents" is an old dodge used by both sides. What always gets left out is often these thousands of documents conspicuously exclude ones that are pertinent including ones specifically requested.

Hence, the "document dump". This is often done in response to requests for documents during discovery.

[Sam]

During the collusion delusion Trump ordered that every single document involved be preserved so that absolutely everything was turned over. Likewise he made everyone without exception available to Mueller and his staff. He claimed Executive Privilege on nothing. While he's followed a different course with the impeachment, I cannot think of another politician who has ever done that.

Trump refused to testify before the Mueller investigation, as did his son. Mueller indicated to Congress that Trump was untruthful in his written answers to the investigation, an implication strongly confirmed during the Stone trial.

Federal documents must be preserved. Campaign documents must be preserved if there's a preservation order, as there was during the Mueller investigation. Trying to pin a gold star on Trump for that is ... not impressive.

And you still have avoided my question regarding executive privilege.

--Sam

[Sam]

And, lest I forget, the Mueller report explained that its investigation was hindered or obstructed, in part, by documentary evidence that was destroyed or inaccessible due to encryption. So even the idea that Trump opened the floodgates on document production is lacking accuracy.

--Sam

[Cow Poke]

We know it won't happen ...

Who's 'we', Sam? Take this "us vs them" crap and....

[Sam]

Who's 'we', Sam? Take this "us vs them" crap and....

If, in the late year of 2020, you're referring to years of document production by the Obama administration for numerous congressional investigations a "document dump", I think my point rests on solid ground.

--Sam

[Cow Poke]

If, in the late year of 2020, you're referring to years of document production by the Obama administration for numerous congressional investigations a "document dump", I think my point rests on solid ground.

--Sam

Well, the only other guy around here who uses the "we" is JimL, so you're in good company.

[Watermelon]

Odd considering how the others who were subpoenaed stated that they were specifically watching how the Kupperman case resolved and a few even talked about joining it.

Of course he dropped it. When they abandoned the subpoena that means that Kupperman has nothing to resolve any longer. How that proved that "the stated reason by House counsel at the time ... proved sound" is anyone's guess.

IIRC, Nadler subpoenaed McGahn whereas Schiff subpoenaed Kupperman, Bolton etc. It is the legality of Schiff's subpoenas that has been called into question.

[Tassman]

Why would those leaders pretend to be impartial, when several members of the opposing party have openly and in some cases repeatedly opined on Bad Orange Man's guilt?

https://www.justsecurity.org/67863/e...egal-concerns/

[Cow Poke]

Well a fair Senate trial would...

...be one that pleases the Democrats. Anything short of "throw the bum out" will simply not be tolerated, regardless of the shoddy way the House portion was run.

[Sam]

...be one that pleases the Democrats. Anything short of "throw the bum out" will simply not be tolerated, regardless of the shoddy way the House portion was run.

Democrats: "We should have a fair, impartial trial with witness testimony from relevant officials who were served lawful subpoenas."

Republicans: "Oh, you'd like that, wouldn't you?! Anything to win, anything to win."


I am not at all sure folks on the right are listening to themselves anymore and fairly sure that their sense of ethics requires that they not be listening to themselves.

--Sam