Volkers texts make it clear the investigation was a precondition

[oxmixmudd]

Which were supplied by....

To support whose testimony...

The texts are his own semi-private words, unfiltered, unspun for public consumption. They are a portion of the facts in this case. Volkers statement may or may not be unfiltered or unspun for public consumption based on political loyalties or personal safety. Such is reality.

Jim

[lilpixieofterror]

The texts are his own semi-private words, unfiltered, unspun for public consumption. They are a portion of the facts in this case. Volkers statement may or may not be unfiltered or unspun for public consumption based on political loyalties or personal safety. Such is reality.

Jim

So the million dollar question:

Why would he supply evidence that contradicts his testimony?

Is he that stupid or is his text being spun, out of context, to fit a narrative?

Pick your poison.

[Sam]

Sam just stop, first, according to Volker the Burisma Group was involved in the 2016 U.S. elections, and that should be investigated. And the fact that we needed assurances that reforms which President Zelensky promised were in effect before we released the monies. And there is no problem with that. WHAT THEY DID NOT SAY WAS THAT ANYTHING WAS TIED TO THE INVESTIGATION OF BIDEN OR HIS SON. Period, end of story.

Well, that's a new one. Points for the effort.

Volker doesn't claim that Burisma did Ukraine 2016. It's almost comical that we've gone from "Trump was just talking about Crowdstrike not Biden" to "The Burisma Group hacked the DNC in 2016 and pinned it on the Russians and that's what Trump wants to investigate, not Biden."

The timeline is clear: Giuliani is working in early 2019 to try and get Ukrainian prosecutors to investigate Ukraine 2016 & Biden through the Burisma Group. Giuliani has said (and keeps saying) as much. We have Volker and Taylor half-heartedly trying to steer the oncoming disaster away from these explicitly political goals, only to be overruled by Sonderland, Giuliani, & Trump. We have Trump in July 2019 telling Zelenskyy that he wants "a favor" after Zelenskyy brings up buying Javelin missiles: find out "the whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike ..."

Let's pause here and remind y'all that just last week you were arguing that Trump's "favor" was investigating the whereabouts of this mythical Crowdstrike server and that Trump's discussion about investigating Burisma and Hunter Biden was totally separate. Then the text messages were released, showing that Volker, Sonderland, and Giuliani were coordinating exactly these two "deliverables" with Ukraine in exchange for a WH "interview" and, later, military funding.

Now the line is that Burisma Group is just connected to the Ukraine 2016 Conspiracy Theory, not to Hunter Biden. But Trump says in the call with Zelenskyy that he wants "Biden's son" investigated and explicitly ties it back to Shokin's "investigation" in 2015. And Giuliani, who has been directing the whole thing has been very clear that the Burisma investigation is all about the Bidens.

So that's that. But y'all can't keep yourselves straight -- not that I'd do any better trying to spin this a new direction every few days (but that's a good reason to not even try).

--Sam

[seer]

Well, that's a new one. Points for the effort.

Volker doesn't claim that Burisma did Ukraine 2016. It's almost comical that we've gone from "Trump was just talking about Crowdstrike not Biden" to "The Burisma Group hacked the DNC in 2016 and pinned it on the Russians and that's what Trump wants to investigate, not Biden."

The timeline is clear: Giuliani is working in early 2019 to try and get Ukrainian prosecutors to investigate Ukraine 2016 & Biden through the Burisma Group. Giuliani has said (and keeps saying) as much. We have Volker and Taylor half-heartedly trying to steer the oncoming disaster away from these explicitly political goals, only to be overruled by Sonderland, Giuliani, & Trump. We have Trump in July 2019 telling Zelenskyy that he wants "a favor" after Zelenskyy brings up buying Javelin missiles: find out "the whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike ..."

Let's pause here and remind y'all that just last week you were arguing that Trump's "favor" was investigating the whereabouts of this mythical Crowdstrike server and that Trump's discussion about investigating Burisma and Hunter Biden was totally separate. Then the text messages were released, showing that Volker, Sonderland, and Giuliani were coordinating exactly these two "deliverables" with Ukraine in exchange for a WH "interview" and, later, military funding.

Now the line is that Burisma Group is just connected to the Ukraine 2016 Conspiracy Theory, not to Hunter Biden. But Trump says in the call with Zelenskyy that he wants "Biden's son" investigated and explicitly ties it back to Shokin's "investigation" in 2015. And Giuliani, who has been directing the whole thing has been very clear that the Burisma investigation is all about the Bidens.

So that's that. But y'all can't keep yourselves straight -- not that I'd do any better trying to spin this a new direction every few days (but that's a good reason to not even try).

--Sam

Sam, again, It was Volker who tied the Burisma Group in, and that is your opinion that they were trying to steer disaster away - perhaps the were just telling the truth. But again, as Volker testified to congress he never discussed Biden or his son in any of this. And when Trump asked for the favor it WAS about Crowdstrike

The President: I would like you to do us a favor President Zelensky: Yes it is very important for me and everything that you just mentioned earlier. For me as a President, it is very important and we are open for any future cooperation. We are ready to open a new page on cooperation in relations between the United States and Ukraine. For that purpose, I just recalled our ambassador from United States and he will be replaced by a very competent and very experienced ambassador who will work hard on making sure that our two nations are getting closer. I would also like and hope to see him having your trust and your confidence and have personal relations with you so we can cooperate even more so. I will personally tell you that one of my assistants spoke with Mr. Giuliani just recently and we are hoping very much that Mr. Giuliani will be able to travel to Ukraine and we will meet once he comes to Ukraine. I just wanted to assure you once again that you have nobody but friends around us. I will make sure that I surround myself with the best and most experienced people. I also wanted to tell you that we are friends. We are great friends and you Mr. President have friends in our country so we can continue our strategic partnership. I also plan to surround myself with great people and in addition to that investigation, I guarantee as the President of Ukraine that all the investigations will be done openly and candidly. That I can assure you...
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ent/2438300001

Then Biden thing was then brought up. A completely different part of the conversation where the favor was mentioned.

[oxmixmudd]

Well, that's a new one. Points for the effort.

Volker doesn't claim that Burisma did Ukraine 2016. It's almost comical that we've gone from "Trump was just talking about Crowdstrike not Biden" to "The Burisma Group hacked the DNC in 2016 and pinned it on the Russians and that's what Trump wants to investigate, not Biden."

The timeline is clear: Giuliani is working in early 2019 to try and get Ukrainian prosecutors to investigate Ukraine 2016 & Biden through the Burisma Group. Giuliani has said (and keeps saying) as much. We have Volker and Taylor half-heartedly trying to steer the oncoming disaster away from these explicitly political goals, only to be overruled by Sonderland, Giuliani, & Trump. We have Trump in July 2019 telling Zelenskyy that he wants "a favor" after Zelenskyy brings up buying Javelin missiles: find out "the whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike ..."

Let's pause here and remind y'all that just last week you were arguing that Trump's "favor" was investigating the whereabouts of this mythical Crowdstrike server and that Trump's discussion about investigating Burisma and Hunter Biden was totally separate. Then the text messages were released, showing that Volker, Sonderland, and Giuliani were coordinating exactly these two "deliverables" with Ukraine in exchange for a WH "interview" and, later, military funding.

Now the line is that Burisma Group is just connected to the Ukraine 2016 Conspiracy Theory, not to Hunter Biden. But Trump says in the call with Zelenskyy that he wants "Biden's son" investigated and explicitly ties it back to Shokin's "investigation" in 2015. And Giuliani, who has been directing the whole thing has been very clear that the Burisma investigation is all about the Bidens.

So that's that. But y'all can't keep yourselves straight -- not that I'd do any better trying to spin this a new direction every few days (but that's a good reason to not even try).

--Sam

This is the sort of thing that is the required result when one is non-objectively trying to spin data into a preferred end result. It happens in psuedo scientific circles, e.g. YEC, when the data can - with some jiggling - be mapped into the preferred narrative - until new data comes along.

It is almost always best to simply follow the data where it leads. If one's first conclusions were wrong, so be it. That becomes very difficult if one is personally invested in the outcome, and further complicated if there is a perceived possibility some of the data has been falsified.

Jim

[oxmixmudd]

So the million dollar question:

Why would he supply evidence that contradicts his testimony?

Is he that stupid or is his text being spun, out of context, to fit a narrative?

Pick your poison.

It's not a bad question pix. But first we'd need to establish if your dichotomy is a truthful reflection of the current situation.

Is it necessarily true that those are the only two options: he is stupid, or his text(s?) are being spun out of context.


Jim

[lilpixieofterror]

It's not a bad question pix. But first we'd need to establish if your dichotomy is a truthful reflection of the current situation.

Is it necessarily true that those are the only two options: he is stupid, or his text(s?) are being spun out of context.


Jim

[firstfloor]

https://edition-m.cnn.com/2019/10/07...PV_532zSQvXqY-


No doubt, consumed by guilt.

[oxmixmudd]

I would not be so quick to assume these are the only two options here. He may not have been aware that Trumps motive in pushing an investigation of Barisma was directed at Biden, whereas it is clear others that he was texting were on some level. He also is saying that HE was not or did not participate in such negotiations. He may have had to walk some very fine lines between doing his job and violating the law. He is doing a lot of resigning right now - there is a problem somewhere.

Jim

[Sam]

It is common -- and expected -- for people to do corrupt things and, in the process of extricating themselves from culpability, both provide incriminating information and declare that they were operating of good intent. See: Michael Cohen's 2018 testimony.

What would matter, much more than a self-congratulatory opening statement, are Volker's answers to specific questions under oath.

--Sam

[Mountain Man]

He is doing a lot of resigning right now - there is a problem somewhere.

Or he's trying to avoid the Brett Kavanaugh treatment.