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Volkers texts make it clear the investigation was a precondition

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  • #31
    And then there's this...

    Testimony From Ukraine Envoy Kurt Volker Directly Contradicts Democrats’ Impeachment Narrative

    Congressional testimony from the former top American envoy to Ukraine directly contradicts the impeachment narrative offered by congressional Democrats and their media allies. Ambassador Kurt Volker, who served for two years as the top U.S. diplomatic envoy to Ukraine, testified on Thursday that he was never aware of and never took part in any effort to push the Ukrainian government to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden or his son Hunter. He also stressed that the interactions between Giuliani and Ukrainian officials were facilitated not to find dirt on Biden, but to assuage concerns that the incoming Ukrainian government would not be able to get a handle on corruption within the country.

    Volker’s full remarks, which were obtained by The Federalist, can be read here.

    “As you will see from the extensive text messages I am providing, which convey a sense of real-time dialogue with several different actors, Vice President Biden was never a topic of discussion” during negotiations with Ukraine, Volker testified. Cherry-picked snippets of those texts were released by the office of Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., late Thursday evening.

    “[A]t no time was I aware of or took part in an effort to urge Ukraine to investigate former Vice President Biden,” Volker told lawmakers.

    Volker said that an advisor to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky asked Volker to connect the advisor to Rudy Giuliani, a personal attorney for President Donald Trump.

    “[I]n May of this year, I became concerned that a negative narrative about Ukraine, fueled by assertions made by Ukraine’s departing Prosecutor General, was reaching the President of the United States, and impeding our ability to support the new Ukrainian government as robustly as I believed we should,” Volker said. “After sharing my concerns with the Ukrainian leadership, an advisor to President Zelensky asked me to connect him to the President’s personal lawyer, Mayor Rudy Giuliani.”

    “I did so solely because I understood that the new Ukrainian leadership wanted to convince those, like Mayor Giuliani, who believed such a negative narrative about Ukraine, that times have changed and that, under President Zelensky, Ukraine is worthy of U.S. support,” Volker said. “I also made clear to the Ukrainians, on a number of occasions, that Mayor Giuliani is a private citizen and the President’s personal lawyer, and that he does not represent the United States government.”

    Volker vehemently denied that he ever urged the Ukrainian government to dig up dirt on the Biden family.

    “As you will see from the extensive text messages I am providing, which convey a sense of real-time dialogue with several different actors, Vice President Biden was never a topic of discussion,” he said.

    Volker testified that he never even mentioned a delay on U.S. military assistance to Ukrainian officials until late August, when news reports indicated that funding had been put on hold. Volker’s statement directly undercuts claims that the funding was part of a quid pro quo meant to force the Ukrainians to take certain actions in order for the military aids to be released......



    I don't think Volker's testimony was anywhere near the "nail in the coffin" that some liberals are pretending it to be.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #32
      We know only of Volker's opening statement, which wasn't likely going to be a confession to serious malfeasance. But that's what's evident in the text messages where he's discussing "deliverables" to POTUS, crafting a Ukrainian statement that highlights investigations into Burisma and the 2016 election, and acknowledging Giuliani's lead role in directing Ukrainian diplomacy. Volker is in the loop with Bill Taylor in the texts and Taylor is most definitely alleging that they were swapping diplomatic meetings and funding for the investigations as political interference.

      --Sam

      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      And then there's this...

      Testimony From Ukraine Envoy Kurt Volker Directly Contradicts Democrats’ Impeachment Narrative

      Congressional testimony from the former top American envoy to Ukraine directly contradicts the impeachment narrative offered by congressional Democrats and their media allies. Ambassador Kurt Volker, who served for two years as the top U.S. diplomatic envoy to Ukraine, testified on Thursday that he was never aware of and never took part in any effort to push the Ukrainian government to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden or his son Hunter. He also stressed that the interactions between Giuliani and Ukrainian officials were facilitated not to find dirt on Biden, but to assuage concerns that the incoming Ukrainian government would not be able to get a handle on corruption within the country.

      Volker’s full remarks, which were obtained by The Federalist, can be read here.

      “As you will see from the extensive text messages I am providing, which convey a sense of real-time dialogue with several different actors, Vice President Biden was never a topic of discussion” during negotiations with Ukraine, Volker testified. Cherry-picked snippets of those texts were released by the office of Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., late Thursday evening.

      “[A]t no time was I aware of or took part in an effort to urge Ukraine to investigate former Vice President Biden,” Volker told lawmakers.

      Volker said that an advisor to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky asked Volker to connect the advisor to Rudy Giuliani, a personal attorney for President Donald Trump.

      “[I]n May of this year, I became concerned that a negative narrative about Ukraine, fueled by assertions made by Ukraine’s departing Prosecutor General, was reaching the President of the United States, and impeding our ability to support the new Ukrainian government as robustly as I believed we should,” Volker said. “After sharing my concerns with the Ukrainian leadership, an advisor to President Zelensky asked me to connect him to the President’s personal lawyer, Mayor Rudy Giuliani.”

      “I did so solely because I understood that the new Ukrainian leadership wanted to convince those, like Mayor Giuliani, who believed such a negative narrative about Ukraine, that times have changed and that, under President Zelensky, Ukraine is worthy of U.S. support,” Volker said. “I also made clear to the Ukrainians, on a number of occasions, that Mayor Giuliani is a private citizen and the President’s personal lawyer, and that he does not represent the United States government.”

      Volker vehemently denied that he ever urged the Ukrainian government to dig up dirt on the Biden family.

      “As you will see from the extensive text messages I am providing, which convey a sense of real-time dialogue with several different actors, Vice President Biden was never a topic of discussion,” he said.

      Volker testified that he never even mentioned a delay on U.S. military assistance to Ukrainian officials until late August, when news reports indicated that funding had been put on hold. Volker’s statement directly undercuts claims that the funding was part of a quid pro quo meant to force the Ukrainians to take certain actions in order for the military aids to be released......



      I don't think Volker's testimony was anywhere near the "nail in the coffin" that some liberals are pretending it to be.
      "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        I don't think Volker's testimony was anywhere near the "nail in the coffin" that some liberals are pretending it to be.
        You don't say. Such a shocking turn of events. And I was sure they would get Trump this time.

        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Sam View Post
          One has to be mighty naive to imagine that Volker would walk into HCSPI and say "Well of course we were doing crimes". That he characterizes his activity as trying to mitigate Giulani's influence is not particularly news. Nor does it throw the texts into new light: discussing the draft Ukranian statement with Sonderland, Volker specifically outlines that the statement should include investigations of Burisma and the 2016 US elections. Whether or not Volker wants to say that he was helping direct an investigation into Biden and Clinton/DNC in exchange for a WH meeting and military funding, the texts are explicit proof that's what he was doing.

          And even the most partisan hackery can't undo that.

          --Sam


          And yet you believe he’s stupid enough to supply evidence that contradicts his testimony (he supplied the text as evidence that supported his testimony). So yeah, you pretty much believe he so dumb, your entire argument rest upon that assumption.
          Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 10-07-2019, 08:10 AM.
          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            All the spin from the diehard TWEB Trump supporters is moot. Volker's texts make it clear Trump was all about withholding aid, conversations, and visits over the issue of Ukraine investigating issues associated with 2016 and Burisma (biden).

            Consider this text on the day of the call:

            Volker: Good Lunch, Thanks! Heard from white house, Assuming President Z convinces Trump he will investigate/"get to the bottom of what happened in 2016" we will nail down date for visit to Washington. Good luck, see you Tomorrow, kurt

            and BEFORE the call:

            Had breakfast with Rudy this morning - teeing up call with Yermak monday. Must have helped. Most important is for Zelensky to say he will help with investigation - and address any personnel issues - if there are any

            Note that later (8/10) he calls for a REBOOT of US/UKraine relations and mentions investigation of Burisma specifically

            https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/03/polit...ker/index.html



            Jim
            What are you talking about?

            Volker's opening statement

            "Third, at no time was I aware of or took part in an effort to urge Ukraine to investigate former Vice President Biden. As you will see from the extensive text messages I am providing, which convey a sense of real-time dialogue with several different actors, Vice President Biden was never a topic of discussion."

            https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/04/polit...ess/index.html

            What they were looking at was this, as they should: https://www.politico.com/story/2017/...ackfire-233446
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • #36
              Too many threads discussing the same or very similar topics... I posted this in another thread, but I think it's relevant here:

              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              We have testimony and public statements from former Special Envoy to the Ukraine Kurt Volker, and it doesn't track with the liberal narrative:

              "[A]t no time was I aware of or took part in an effort to urge Ukraine to investigate former Vice President Biden."

              "As you will see from the extensive text messages I am providing, which convey a sense of real-time dialogue with several different actors, Vice President Biden was never a topic of discussion."

              "I did not discuss the hold [of military aid] with my Ukrainian counterparts until the matter became public in late August."
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post


                And yet you believe he’s stupid enough to supply evidence that contradicts his testimony (he supplied the text as evidence that supported his testimony). So yeah, you pretty much believe he so dumb, your entire argument rest upon that assumption.
                Not dumb. Trapped.

                Y'all can invent hidden meanings for the texts all you want. But it's notable that no one has really even tried. Just this one document dump shows a perfectly clear chain of foreign policy trading: investigation into Ukraine 2016 (crucial to exonerating and pardoning Manafort) in exchange for a WH meeting, evolving into dual investigations (Ukraine 2016 & Burisma/Biden) in exchange for WH Meeting/military funding. Volker was a willing cog in this machine, managed by Sonderland and directed by Giuliani -- both serving the ultimate direction of the President. Pompeo, Barr, and now Perry are all implicated, just in the past few days alone.

                Volker was Pompeo's fall guy. Seems that he took the opportunity to clear his name as best he could, at the expense of some other goodfellas.

                --Sam
                "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Sam View Post
                  Not dumb. Trapped.

                  Y'all can invent hidden meanings for the texts all you want. But it's notable that no one has really even tried. Just this one document dump shows a perfectly clear chain of foreign policy trading: investigation into Ukraine 2016 (crucial to exonerating and pardoning Manafort) in exchange for a WH meeting, evolving into dual investigations (Ukraine 2016 & Burisma/Biden) in exchange for WH Meeting/military funding. Volker was a willing cog in this machine, managed by Sonderland and directed by Giuliani -- both serving the ultimate direction of the President. Pompeo, Barr, and now Perry are all implicated, just in the past few days alone.

                  Volker was Pompeo's fall guy. Seems that he took the opportunity to clear his name as best he could, at the expense of some other goodfellas.

                  --Sam
                  So let’s get this straight:

                  You think he’s smart enough to not implicate himself and sets up this ruse to fool us all, but is stupid enough to supply the evidence to undermine his entire ruse?



                  I think your tin foil hat is on too tight.
                  "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                  GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                    So let’s get this straight:

                    You think he’s smart enough to not implicate himself and sets up this ruse to fool us all, but is stupid enough to supply the evidence to undermine his entire ruse?



                    I think your tin foil hat is on too tight.
                    Volker's line is "I didn't set this up, I wasn't acting politically, and I was trying to keep these guys (Sonderland/Giuliani) from wrecking Ukrainian diplomacy." To do that, Volker has to show that he's being cooperative now and show the evidence he has that this really was all coming from higher up, such as when he and Taylor are trying to thread the needle with a vague Ukrainian statement regarding investigating "corruption" and Giuliani (whose clients are, at the same time, trying to set up a corrupt contract to export LNG to Ukraine) insists on the specific addition of Ukraine 2016 and Burisma/Biden.

                    The rapid-response strategy of "I haven't read the report but I'm sure there's nothing in it" has fallen on hard times, I'm afraid.

                    --Sam
                    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Sam View Post
                      Volker's line is "I didn't set this up, I wasn't acting politically, and I was trying to keep these guys (Sonderland/Giuliani) from wrecking Ukrainian diplomacy." To do that, Volker has to show that he's being cooperative now and show the evidence he has that this really was all coming from higher up, such as when he and Taylor are trying to thread the needle with a vague Ukrainian statement regarding investigating "corruption" and Giuliani (whose clients are, at the same time, trying to set up a corrupt contract to export LNG to Ukraine) insists on the specific addition of Ukraine 2016 and Burisma/Biden.

                      The rapid-response strategy of "I haven't read the report but I'm sure there's nothing in it" has fallen on hard times, I'm afraid.

                      --Sam
                      It appears you didn’t bother to read his statement. How entertaining. Keep spinning Sam because his statement is linked here for all to see.
                      Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 10-07-2019, 10:08 AM.
                      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                        It appears you didn’t bother to read his statement. How entertaining. Keep spinning Sam because his statement is linked here for all to see.
                        As are the texts, which constitute actual evidence.

                        Image 047.jpg
                        "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Sam View Post
                          As are the texts, which constitute actual evidence.

                          [ATTACH=CONFIG]40114[/ATTACH]
                          Which were supplied by....

                          To support whose testimony...

                          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Sam View Post
                            As are the texts, which constitute actual evidence.

                            [ATTACH=CONFIG]40114[/ATTACH]
                            This is primarily about Ukrainian corruption and their interference with the 2016 US Election (on the side of Democrats BTW). Yes Burisma is mentioned in the wider context of corruption, and interference with the 2016 US Election - but nothing is said about Joe or Hunter Biden, and as Gordon Sondland made clear there was no "quid pro quo’s of any kind."

                            On September 9, 2019, Ambassador Taylor and Ambassador Sondland had the following exchange regarding the withholding of military assistance to Ukraine:

                            [9/9/19, 12:31:06 AM] Bill Taylor: The message to the Ukrainians (and Russians) we send with the decision on security assistance is key. With the hold, we have already shaken their faith in us. Thus my nightmare scenario.

                            [9/9/19, 12:34:44 AM] Bill Taylor: Counting on you to be right about this interview, Gordon.

                            [9/9/19, 12:37:16 AM] Gordon Sondland: Bill, I never said I was “right”. I said we are where we are and believe we have identified the best pathway forward. Lets hope it works.

                            [9/9/19, 12:47:11 AM] Bill Taylor: As I said on the phone, I think it’s crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign.

                            [9/9/19, 5:19:35 AM] Gordon Sondland: Bill, I believe you are incorrect about President Trump’s intentions. The President has been crystal clear no quid pro quo’s of any kind. The President is trying to evaluate whether Ukraine is truly going to adopt the transparency and reforms that President Zelensky promised during his campaign I suggest we stop the back and forth by text If you still have concerns I recommend you give Lisa Kenna or S a call to discuss them directly. Thanks
                            .

                            [8/13/19, 10:26:44 AM] Kurt Volker: Special attention should be paid to the problem of interference in the political processes of the United States, especially with the alleged involvement of some Ukrainian politicians. I want to declare that this is unacceptable. We intend to initiate and complete a transparent and unbiased investigation of all available facts and episodes, including those involving Burisma and the 2016 U.S. elections, which in turn will prevent the recurrence of this problem in the future.

                            [8/13/19, 10:27:20 AM] Gordon Sondland: Perfect. Lets send to Andrey after our call
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Unfortunately for Sonderland and the gang, saying "This isn't quid pro quo" does not magically make something not quid pro quo.

                              We know why Trump and Giuliani are focused on Burisma Group. We know that Trump and Giuliani don't care about corruption on principle, even in the specific context of military aid. There's no jet-setting by Giuliani rooting out corruption in Saudi Arabia after Khashoggi's murder at the direction of MBS, despite military weapon sales and troop support. We know that Giuliani explicitly said he was trying to get Ukraine to investigate Ukraine 2016/Burisma "for my client".

                              This is the scene in Goodfellas right after the Lufthansa heist where the guys are trying to convince Jimmy that they can walk around with new Cadillacs and mink coats because "it's under my mother's name".

                              Only the very stupid or very far gone think that it's a remotely plausible excuse.

                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              This is primarily about Ukrainian corruption and their interference with the 2016 US Election (on the side of Democrats BTW). Yes Burisma is mentioned in the wider context of corruption, and interference with the 2016 US Election - but nothing is said about Joe or Hunter Biden, and as Gordon Sondland made clear there was no "quid pro quo’s of any kind."
                              "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Sam View Post
                                Unfortunately for Sonderland and the gang, saying "This isn't quid pro quo" does not magically make something not quid pro quo.

                                We know why Trump and Giuliani are focused on Burisma Group. We know that Trump and Giuliani don't care about corruption on principle, even in the specific context of military aid. There's no jet-setting by Giuliani rooting out corruption in Saudi Arabia after Khashoggi's murder at the direction of MBS, despite military weapon sales and troop support. We know that Giuliani explicitly said he was trying to get Ukraine to investigate Ukraine 2016/Burisma "for my client".

                                This is the scene in Goodfellas right after the Lufthansa heist where the guys are trying to convince Jimmy that they can walk around with new Cadillacs and mink coats because "it's under my mother's name".

                                Only the very stupid or very far gone think that it's a remotely plausible excuse.
                                Sam just stop, first, according to Volker the Burisma Group was involved in the 2016 U.S. elections, and that should be investigated. And the fact that we needed assurances that reforms which President Zelensky promised were in effect before we released the monies. And there is no problem with that. WHAT THEY DID NOT SAY WAS THAT ANYTHING WAS TIED TO THE INVESTIGATION OF BIDEN OR HIS SON. Period, end of story.
                                Last edited by seer; 10-07-2019, 11:59 AM.
                                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                                Comment

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