The irony of the New York Times� 1619 Project...

[Sam]

If you have a rule against calling someone a liar without substantiation, I would hope that rule is grounded in something more than semantics, such that a clear insinuation of lying is taken as seriously as using the magic word.

--Sam

We have a rule against calling someone a liar. as in, "Sam, you are lying" or "Sam you are a liar" - I did no such thing. If you feel I was insinuating you were lying by some voodoo magical indirect method, well that's on you and is not against the rules. I am sorry if I hurt your feelings. But I am not apologizing for something I didn't do.

If your skin is that thin, maybe you shouldn't be posting in civics.

Lying
We consider a lie to be a poster knowingly and willfully making a statement they know to be untrue. If you call someone a liar you need to substantiate it. In order to substantiate an accusation of lying, it must be shown that the poster in question is stating something they know to be untrue. Opinions or facts that are in dispute should never be referred to as lies. Someone's faith or beliefs should also never be referred to as lying. We will not allow repeated accusations of lying. We will moderate any tossing out the term "liar" - and similar charges - when it is used in place of a response or as a mere insult to denigrate the other person, as judged by the moderators. We will also not allow repeated posts calling someone a liar, accusing them of lying, or claiming their post is a lie. If you wish to challenge the truth of someone's statement, then do so ONLY ONCE in the thread, and substantiate your claim IN THE SAME POST. Further discussion of the matter will only be allowed in the Padded Room.

[Mountain Man]

I agree with the bolded. I think one real difference is location/environment. Blacks in inner cities (and whites) are statistically poorer and are more disadvantaged than blacks (and whites) who live in suburban and rural areas. The inner city slums need to be what is dealt with. Until we do, anyone who lives there will be disadvantaged whether black or any other race. They are crime-ridden neighborhoods with horrible living conditions and lousy schools.

Much of that can be attributed to Democrat policies that deliberately keep the "under privileged" exactly where they want them.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog...cies_fail.html

[Mountain Man]

I answered that to Sparko.

Basic question: how many here need a refresher course on the differences between statistical statements about populations and absolute claims about individual members of a population?

The questions asked and accusations levied would point to a somewhat low kevel confusion of the two.


Jim

General statistics are meaningless when we're talking about how policies apply to individuals. Not even all white people enjoy the same advantages as the "average" white person.

[oxmixmudd]

General statistics are meaningless when we're talking about how policies apply to individuals. Not even all white people enjoy the same advantages as the "average" white person.

You still seem to not understand what im talking about in terms of statistics relative to the population.

For example about 6% of US MDs are black, whereas a little over 12% of the population is black. OTOH, 37% of the incarcerated population is black. In terms of poverty, 21% are black. Fortune 500 CEO's - 2%.

This and a gost of similar statistics tells a sad story. The legacy of slavery and racism is still very much alive in this country. Some of the trends are in the right direction, but there is a good bit left to be done.


Jim

[Mountain Man]

For example about 6% of US MDs are black, whereas a little over 12% of the population is black. OTOH, 37% of the incarcerated population is black. In terms of poverty, 21% are black. Fortune 500 CEO's - 2%.

Those statistics tell us what, but they don't tell us why, so it is a huge leap to claim this as proof that "The legacy of slavery and racism is still very much alive in this country."

[Sam]

If people are actually interested in the "why", I know a nice and easy starting-point essay that can start them down the right road.

--Sam

[Adrift]

and strict regulations on housing so that things like devaluing majority-black neighborhood homeowners' property and decreasing home values in a neighborhood after several black families move in stop happening.

Not that I'm arguing against it, but how would something like that work in principle. Isn't homeowner property worth what someone would pay for it? Are you suggesting artificial inflation? Also, what about those areas where gentrification exists, where an individual might pay more than a home's apparent value? This is sort of relevant to me, as I'm looking for an historical home in the city to live in, but simply cannot find one, even though I (think I) can afford one.

[Mountain Man]

If people are actually interested in the "why", I know a nice and easy starting-point essay that can start them down the right road.

--Sam

Just as long as it's not that revisionist history slop being served up by The New York Times...

[oxmixmudd]

Not that I'm arguing against it, but how would something like that work in principle. Isn't homeowner property worth what someone would pay for it? Are you suggesting artificial inflation? Also, what about those areas where gentrification exists, where an individual might pay more than a home's apparent value? This is sort of relevant to me, as I'm looking for an historical home in the city to live in, but simply cannot find one, even though I (think I) can afford one.

Isn't the fact that home values would decrease after 3 or 4 black families move in a rather obvious indication racism still lives and is still a factor holding back the black population?

Jim

[Sam]

People who profess ignorance beyond the statistics aren't in a position to judge the quality of historical interpretation.

--Sam

Just as long as it's not that revisionist history slop being served up by The New York Times...

[Mountain Man]

Isn't the fact that home values would decrease after 3 or 4 black families move in a rather obvious indication racism still lives and is still a factor holding back the black population?

Jim

Not necessarily.

[Sam]

Not that I'm arguing against it, but how would something like that work in principle. Isn't homeowner property worth what someone would pay for it? Are you suggesting artificial inflation? Also, what about those areas where gentrification exists, where an individual might pay more than a home's apparent value? This is sort of relevant to me, as I'm looking for an historical home in the city to live in, but simply cannot find one, even though I (think I) can afford one.

That's a good question and I don't know; I think it's difficult to make good federal laws that impact the housing market in a way that covers the necessary bases without having unintended effects. We do know, though, that homeowner properties aren't necessarily worth what someone would pay for it because people are very happy to pay less when possible; historically, black American-owned homes and businesses have been devalued by banks and lenders then often repossessed, sold to white owners, and "gentrified" or increased in value. This has as much to do with equity financing as it does resale.

Out here in the midwest, for example, we had a couple historical neighborhoods near the hospital that were, until the recession, a majority-black neighborhood. A bunch of houses were foreclosed and at least one of those neighborhoods -- without any major change in infrastructure -- was converted into a majority-white middle/upper-middle class set of owned and rented houses. The land value, objectively speaking, didn't change but banks were able to flip the neighborhood parcels for a lot of money.

--Sam

[oxmixmudd]

Those statistics tell us what, but they don't tell us why, so it is a huge leap to claim this as proof that "The legacy of slavery and racism is still very much alive in this country."

It's not a huge leap all ... unless one ascribes to the idea african americans are morally, mentally, or other ways inferior to white people ...

Jim

[oxmixmudd]

Not necessarily.

Really? and what, pray tell, would cause values in a neighborhood to go down because of the skin color of the new owners other than prejudice/racism?

Jim

[Adrift]

Isn't the fact that home values would decrease after 3 or 4 black families move in a rather obvious indication racism still lives and is still a factor holding back the black population?

Jim

No, that doesn't seem necessarily obvious to me.