The irony of the New York Times� 1619 Project...

[Mountain Man]

The absurd notion that, even today, black and other non-white Americans are starting on "equal footing" with white Americans is a form of racism but it ain't soft.

They start off on equal footing in the sense that they have the same ability and opportunity to succeed as everyone else in America. Although the way you frame it, I suppose I should cry "Oppression!" because I wasn't raised by millionaires. How dare someone else have access to resources that I don't!

And the fact remains, I know and know of many blacks who are successful. Why can they do it? What makes them special?

[Sam]

They start off on equal footing in the sense that they have the same ability and opportunity to succeed as everyone else in America. Although the way you frame it, I suppose I should cry "Oppression!" because I wasn't raised by millionaires. How dare someone else have access to resources that I don't!

And the fact remains, I know and know of many blacks who are successful. Why can they do it? What makes them special?

Because some are able to jump six feet, so to speak, whereas they'd only have to jump two feet if white. Others may have only had to jump four feet, thanks to skill, work, luck, or some combination thereof. Some, like Ben Carson, may have had to jump ten feet but are just that exceptional (or were, at least).

Do you feel like you would have had more opportunities had you been raised by millionaires? Maybe made it into better pre-K/elementary schools? Left college with less debt? Had a higher family net worth you could fall back on if illness hit or things got dicey? Do millionaires have an easier time of it than non-millionaires?

If so, you start to grok how keeping black families out of good home equity markets -- often as a function of explicit policy -- for decades and generations might create a systemic disadvantage.

--Sam

[Mountain Man]

Because some are able to jump six feet, so to speak, whereas they'd only have to jump two feet if white. Others may have only had to jump four feet, thanks to skill, work, luck, or some combination thereof. Some, like Ben Carson, may have had to jump ten feet but are just that exceptional (or were, at least).

Do you feel like you would have had more opportunities had you been raised by millionaires? Maybe made it into better pre-K/elementary schools? Left college with less debt? Had a higher family net worth you could fall back on if illness hit or things got dicey? Do millionaires have an easier time of it than non-millionaires?

If so, you start to grok how keeping black families out of good home equity markets -- often as a function of explicit policy -- for decades and generations might create a systemic disadvantage.

--Sam

Wow... so only the most "exceptional" blacks can succeed, huh? And you wonder why we think attitudes like yours are racist.

Furthermore, I reject the premise that the "bar" is set exactly the same for every person in a given demographic. I think Ben Carson succeeded because he was asked to jump the same six-feet as anybody else, and he didn't whine or complain or cry "Oppression!" He just knuckled down and did it.

To answer your question, would I have done better in life if my parents were rich? Who can say? There are countless examples which prove that growing up in an affluent home does not guarantee success nor necessarily make it easier to achieve. People love to tell themselves, "I would be so much better off if only I had what this other person had!", but it's fallacious thinking and an attempt to rationalize any failures as not their fault.

[Sam]

Your failure at what's called "active reading" in primary school and "basic reading comprehension" among adults continues to demonstrate that you're either not disposed to or simply ill-equipped for meaningful conversation.

--Sam

Wow... so only the most "exceptional" blacks can succeed, huh? And you wonder why we think attitudes like yours are racist.

[oxmixmudd]

So generally black men can't be moral in the face of adversity? And why do blacks from Africa or the Islands do so much better in this country - if memory serves their unemployment rate tracks that of whites.

Of course not.

As for your 'question', that would be because they grew up in a more nornal social construct, not one hampered by what slavery and racism has produced here.

In fact that should help define just how toxic the environment is in the US if you are black.

Jim

[Mountain Man]

Your failure at what's called "active reading" in primary school and "basic reading comprehension" among adults continues to demonstrate that you're either not disposed to or simply ill-equipped for meaningful conversation.

--Sam

Says the guy who didn't bother addressing the remaining 95% of my post and which added more context to my statement.

[oxmixmudd]

They start off on equal footing in the sense that they have the same ability and opportunity to succeed as everyone else in America. Although the way you frame it, I suppose I should cry "Oppression!" because I wasn't raised by millionaires. How dare someone else have access to resources that I don't!

And the fact remains, I know and know of many blacks who are successful. Why can they do it? What makes them special?

Most white people have no idea how much better, on average, they have it growing up and getting an education and making it in the working world than a black person does, on average.

The stats dont lie. If black people from other countries do as well as whites in america, if black people raised here are behind in wages, education and overall success, then we can blame the environment in america for black people. Which ultimately is the outcome of historical and current racism and slavery.

Jim

[oxmixmudd]

Says the guy who didn't bother addressing the remaining 95% of my post and which added more context to my statement.

If you dont like it being done to you, then stop doing it to others.

Jim

[Sam]

The remainder of your post added nothing that contextualized or excused your inability or outright disregard to read my post correctly and see there's no way a reasonable person could infer "the only successful black people in America are the exceptional people" from what I wrote.

Your problem -- the one that limits you to puffery in conservative safe spaces -- is that you're deeply unserious and not worth engaging.

But you've found your niche so at least there's that.

--Sam

Says the guy who didn't bother addressing the remaining 95% of my post and which added more context to my statement.

[seer]

The stats dont lie. If black people from other countries do as well as whites in america, if black people raised here are behind in wages, education and overall success, then we can blame the environment in america for black people. Which ultimately is the outcome of historical and current racism and slavery.

Jim

Wouldn't black immigrants suffer from the same racism?

[Mountain Man]

...there's no way a reasonable person could infer "the only successful black people in America are the exceptional people" from what I wrote.

False. I'm a reasonable person, and that's exactly how it came across to me. Your attempt to claim that only those blacks capable of extraordinary effort are able to succeed in America really does come across as quite racist. And you still have yet to prove your premise that someone like Ben Carson had to work nearly 50% harder (a "10-foot jump" versus a "6-foot jump") than his white colleagues in order to achieve the same success, or that my black co-workers had to work harder than me to reach the same point in our respective careers. In fact, if I were to tell them, "Did you know that you have to work harder than me for your success because blacks are oppressed by American culture?" they would feel extremely insulted.

[Sam]

If the goal was to demonstrate your competence at reading, it would have been enormously to your benefit to make sure you restated the analogy correctly.

--Sam

False. I'm a reasonable person, and that's exactly how it came across to me. Your attempt to claim that only those blacks capable of extraordinary effort are able to succeed in America really does come across as quite racist. And you still have yet to prove your premise that someone like Ben Carson had to work nearly 50% harder (a "10-foot jump" versus a "6-foot jump") than his white colleagues in order to achieve the same success, or that my black co-workers had to work harder than me to reach the same point in our respective careers. In fact, if I were to tell them, "Did you know that you have to work harder than me for your success because blacks are oppressed by American culture?" they would feel extremely insulted.

[seer]

False. I'm a reasonable person, and that's exactly how it came across to me. Your attempt to claim that only those blacks capable of extraordinary effort are able to succeed in America really does come across as quite racist. And you still have yet to prove your premise that someone like Ben Carson had to work nearly 50% harder (a "10-foot jump" versus a "6-foot jump") than his white colleagues in order to achieve the same success, or that my black co-workers had to work harder than me to reach the same point in our respective careers. In fact, if I were to tell them, "Did you know that you have to work harder than me for your success because blacks are oppressed by American culture?" they would feel extremely insulted.

I had three friends from Jamaica over the years who immigrated here, and financially did much better than me. They didn't understand what black Americans were complaining about. They pretty much found open doors.

[One Bad Pig]

In my field, at least, (law) this is flat out wrong. Thanks to affirmative action, blacks only have to jump one foot for the same thing whites have to jump 2 feet for - an associate position. However, because blacks don't have to jump as far, their quality of work tends to pale in comparison; consequently, when a partner wants to staff an important job, he's going to choose the guy with the best work product. Because advancement tends to depend on the number and quality of jobs given, blacks don't advance as well. This is in a profession which has been at the diversity forefront, and the firms I have worked for have always prided themselves in their diversity.

[Sam]

In my field, at least, (law) this is flat out wrong. Thanks to affirmative action, blacks only have to jump one foot for the same thing whites have to jump 2 feet for - an associate position. However, because blacks don't have to jump as far, their quality of work tends to pale in comparison; consequently, when a partner wants to staff an important job, he's going to choose the guy with the best work product. Because advancement tends to depend on the number and quality of jobs given, blacks don't advance as well. This is in a profession which has been at the diversity forefront, and the firms I have worked for have always prided themselves in their diversity.

This reminds me of something that passed through my Twitter feed last year. An ABA study disagrees that racial bias doesn't exist or is reversed among law firms. Could be that your firm is an outlier or could be that cause and correlation are getting muddled up.

--Sam