Originally posted by KingsGambit
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To Reduce Gun Violence, Congress Must Address Mental Health
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"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostI don't think you're being condescending. I simply think we have a situation where different rights and needs are in tension and there's no easy solution.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostWe have to be careful about calling anything unusual a red flag...The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by mikewhitney View Postare you saying that corporations can have guns?"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostWhich is why we put requirements with teeth - there better be grounds to believe this person is a danger to self or others....
One of the proposals I heard to day regarding any such Texas legislation is that it would involve a Sheriff (not a sheriff's deputy, but the County Sheriff), a Justice of the Peace, and a medical doctor.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostNo, the Second Amendment was incorporated to apply to the states.
It seems like we are saying the same thing, even if it doesn't sound like it.
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Originally posted by mikewhitney View PostI thought I said this. It was the fourteenth amendment which required states to protect the 14th amendment class of citizens on most of the bill of rights.
It seems like we are saying the same thing, even if it doesn't sound like it.
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostWe're going to have to deal with the nonsense that you have the 'right' to be so dysfunctional that you end up on the street.
Abolition of the insanity defense and involuntary hospitalization
Szasz believed that testimony about the mental competence of a defendant should not be admissible in trials. Psychiatrists testifying about the mental state of an accused person's mind have about as much business as a priest testifying about the religious state of a person's soul in our courts. Insanity was a legal tactic invented to circumvent the punishments of the Church, which at the time included confiscation of the property of those who committed suicide, often leaving widows and orphans destitute. Only an insane person would do such a thing to his widow and children, it was successfully argued. This is legal mercy masquerading as medicine, according to Szasz.
No one should be deprived of liberty unless he is found guilty of a criminal offense. Depriving a person of liberty for what is said to be his own good is immoral. Just as a person suffering from terminal cancer may refuse treatment, so should a person be able to refuse psychiatric treatment.
I actually think his view goes too far, and I definitely think it's in society's best interest to offer help to the mentally ill, even if they're competent enough to refuse it, but thinking back to past psychiatric measures, and keeping in consideration questions on autonomy, I find myself divided on the issue.
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostWouldn't work - we value the right greatly - and we should - but we NEED transportation. That, and one crazy is only going to sway the one in a million election. But that same crazy with a two ton bullet can kill. There's a more solid rationale - and we need to do it anyway. Seriously, if he/she is that far gone you do NOT want them behind the wheel or a trigger!
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostProbably for another thread, but I think this is a legit concern, especially considering the many abuses that were prevalent in asylums in the 19th and 20th century. As a prominent psychiatrist/psychologist himself, I think Thomas Szasz's work on this subject is relevant. Here's a brief summary of his views from Wikipedia,
Abolition of the insanity defense and involuntary hospitalization
Szasz believed that testimony about the mental competence of a defendant should not be admissible in trials. Psychiatrists testifying about the mental state of an accused person's mind have about as much business as a priest testifying about the religious state of a person's soul in our courts. Insanity was a legal tactic invented to circumvent the punishments of the Church, which at the time included confiscation of the property of those who committed suicide, often leaving widows and orphans destitute. Only an insane person would do such a thing to his widow and children, it was successfully argued. This is legal mercy masquerading as medicine, according to Szasz.
No one should be deprived of liberty unless he is found guilty of a criminal offense. Depriving a person of liberty for what is said to be his own good is immoral. Just as a person suffering from terminal cancer may refuse treatment, so should a person be able to refuse psychiatric treatment.
I actually think his view goes too far, and I definitely think it's in society's best interest to offer help to the mentally ill, even if they're competent enough to refuse it, but thinking back to past psychiatric measures, and keeping in consideration questions on autonomy, I find myself divided on the issue.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI remember my psychology professor in seminary --- he seemed WAY too focused on demanding that "psychology is an actual science, just like math and physics...." He would come up with some strange ideas, but I aced his classes because I 'played the game'.
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Well my understanding of the "red flag" law would be that if a person sets off one of the flags, the police has the right to bring that person before a judge for a hearing, with his lawyer, and only after a judge has ruled can the person's guns be taken away. That is to allow due process. I think they will also need to have regular hearings to re-evaluate the person as time goes on.
I am not sure, and I hope it isn't just up to a judge, but the guy has to have professional evaluation by a medical professional.
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostYeah, even though he was an atheist, Szasz had an issue with the state of psychiatry as a sort of secular alternative to religion, and had major concerns with people confusing it with the harder sciences, and a cure-all for all that ailed society, and noted the troubling history of psychiatry when compounded with state institutions as seen in Nazi Germany and in communist nations.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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