Originally posted by Sparko
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Epstein Found Dead In Cell...
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostEven if blocked from accessing crucial material the very fact of such a blockage is telling in and of itself and may provoke demands for broader investigation.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostSo, let's cut to the chase -- what do you think happened?
So it's difficult for any of us to make an actual determination based on the info that the public has access to, all we really have is the coroners "hesitant" say so!
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Originally posted by JimL View PostIt's hard to say, there are so many strange details that don't add up. The coroner says suicide, but we don't have the evidence upon which the coroner made that determination. Why not? Is it true that Epstein said that it was not a suicide attempt, that he was attacked the first time he was found unconscious? Why was such an important prisoner taken off of suicide watch. Why was he left in a cell by himself when it was required that he have a cell mate? Why did he have access to sheets strong enough to hang himself with. He could have been hanged without doing it himself, ya know! Perhaps the reason that particular bone in his neck was broken was because he didn't do the hanging himself. And why were the guards conveniently sleeping while the death took place. Were the camera's on and if so what do they show? I haven't heard answers to any of these things. Why not?
So it's difficult for any of us to make an actual determination based on the info that the public has access to, all we really have is the coroners "hesitant" say so!
Dr. Michael Baden is a pathologist who was hired by Epstein's representatives to observe the autopsy, and he's been pretty quiet. If there were news, I'm sure he'd be touting it.Last edited by Cow Poke; 08-18-2019, 10:16 AM.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Whatever the findings are, there are some individuals not resting easy on their beds. His exposure is making them very vulnerable and I wouldn't be surprised to see massive legal maneuvers over the sealed documents.Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette
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Originally posted by seanD View PostThis might be a good way to get an independent perspective of the investigation, but I'm wondering how much power they have -- do they have access to the investigative documentation, can they view the video footage, interview the staff, examine the cell, etc?
Attorneys Martin Weinberg, Reid Weingarten and Michael Miller said in a statement that it is "indisputable that the authorities violated their own protocols" at the federal lockup.
They say they'll conduct their own probe and get court help, if necessary, to see "pivotal videos."
I also found this interesting...
A Justice Department official says people including jail staff members believed to have information pertinent to the probe into financier Jeffrey Epstein's death are not cooperating with investigators.
The official says the people have not yet been interviewed by the FBI and that their lack of cooperation is a challenge as investigators works to try to determine the full circumstances surrounding Epstein's suicide.
The official was not authorized to discuss the investigation publicly and spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity.
The official says the FBI has repeatedly sought interviews with some staff members but those interviews are being delayed by union representatives.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostMany of those questions can be answered pretty easily - the prison was, apparently, quite lax in following its own protocols, and much has been said about the incompetence of the guards.
Dr. Michael Baden is a pathologist who was hired by Epstein's representatives to observe the autopsy, and he's been pretty quiet. If there were news, I'm sure he'd be touting it.
I'm not saying he didn't commit suicide, but I'm not going to simply take the coroners word for it absent so much of the evidence.Last edited by JimL; 08-18-2019, 11:48 AM.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostThat doesn't easily, or at all, answer the questions I posed.
Where is all the evidence?
All we have is the coroners determination, his analysis of the evidence, i.e. that it was suicide by hanging.
Perhaps it was death by hanging, but that in itself doesn't prove suicide. Who made the decision to take him off suicide watch? And why? Who made the decision to leave him in a cell by himself? And why? Why were there sheets capable of being utilized for hanging? Were the camera's on and where are the videos? Why was his cell mate moved, and what does he have to say about the first suicide attempt? He was there! It's too easy to just pass it all off to lax protocol when you have a prisoner of this importance.
Epsteins representatives, his lawyers, from what I have heard, have not been quiet at all and want a full investigation of these questions. Why did Baden say he needed more time, what was he looking at that he wasn't sure of?
I'm not saying he didn't commit suicide, but I'm not going to simply take the coroners word for it absent so much of the evidence.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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I think, for some of these conspiracy theories to flourish, there has to be a sense that a guest coroner is an adversary in an autopsy.
I have attended MANY autopsies where there was a guest coroner representing the family of the deceased, or somebody else who believed they had a vested interest in the results, and maybe didn't trust the system.
I have NEVER seen an atmosphere in autopsy where the medical examiners were in any way adversarial. They were interested in the truth, and often one of them would suggest checking out a particular theory or idea, and the person performing the autopsy would do everything to be transparent. There's an atmosphere of professionalism and cooperation. A sense of professional courtesy.
To my knowledge, Dr Baden has never expressed any concern about a lack of cooperation during the autopsy, and has not challenged the findings.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostWhy, all of a sudden, are we in a place where we can't accept official rulings - that somehow, a whole 'nuther group needs to take all the underlying evidence and do their own analysis?
And Epstein's own team had their own fully qualified autopsy expert to observe --- what do you think he missed?Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.
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Great - more mystery - I can't find anything at all on the alleged gag order, other than Baden claiming to be under one.
A gag order would be issued by a judge or a court. Sometimes, when somebody simply wants to invent an excuse not to talk, they'll claim they're under a gag order.Last edited by Cow Poke; 08-18-2019, 01:31 PM.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostGreat - more mystery - I can't find anything at all on the alleged gag order, other than Baden claiming to be under one.
A gag order would be issued by a judge or a court. Sometimes, when somebody simply wants to invent an excuse not to talk, they'll claim they're under a gag order.
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Originally posted by seanD View PostSo you think he's lying?
You assumed he would tout something he saw that was amiss with the autopsy,
so why would you assume he would lie to the daily beast just so he wouldn't have to talk, yet he'd be willing to talk about other matters of the investigation?
I'm not even saying there is NOT a gag order --- I'm just surprised I haven't seen anything about it. And it may actually be out there - I just haven't found it.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI have no way of knowing - but a gag order is a big deal - and if there were one in place, I'd be surprised that somebody in the media hasn't commented on it.
Because his job was to be there to observe to make sure things were on the up-and-up.
Sean, you seem, of late, to be looking for a fight. I never "assumed he was lying" - I simply expressed surprise that the 'gag order' was not being covered by the press. I'm still quite surprised that there's this "gag order", and there's nothing in the press at all about it.
I'm not even saying there is NOT a gag order --- I'm just surprised I haven't seen anything about it. And it may actually be out there - I just haven't found it.
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