Trump's Trade Deals...

[carpedm9587]

The other side...

And the problem, Seer, is when the tariffs impact items that are not readily available domestically and internationally, or they cost significantly more from those other sources. Steel is a marvelous example. China dwarfs the market. Their volume is so high, their price points are very low. So when tariffs on steel rise, most domestic companies that need steel have no other place to go to get that volume or that price - even with the tariffs. So they simply end up paying the higher price.

The same is true for many things Trump has placed tariffs on. Meanwhile China is playing the same game, making many American goods that China CAN buy elsewhere more attractive (e.g., soybeans). And China is surgically targeting products manufactured in red states and districts.

Don't get me wrong - I hope Trump continues this course of action and China continues to retaliate. I hope the entire thing significantly and negatively impacts our economy. Money is a major driver for Trump's base. We keep hearing "the economy - the economy." Perhaps if the things the right values are as negatively impacted as the things the left values have been, Trump will lose enough of his base to make his win essentially impossible.

[carpedm9587]

Right so you would do nothing, let China keep eating our lunch and stealing our intellectual properties...

I defend positions I have actually taken - not words people put in my mouth.

[Mountain Man]

Steel is a marvelous example. China dwarfs the market. Their volume is so high, their price points are very low.

You get what you pay for, and Chinese made steel is no exception. It's easy to flood the market with cheap product when you don't care about the quality.

The Australian Steel Institute and the Welding Technology Institute of Australia said that some imports from China have serious quality defects, according to a report on Tuesday on the Australian Broadcasting Corporation.

“We’ve seen some examples of that and it’s quite dangerous,” Welding Institute chief executive Geoff Crittenden told the public broadcaster.

“What concerns us most of all is there’s going to be a terrible accident, and that’s unacceptable,” he said.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-c...0T71KV20151118

...1600 tonnes of Chinese steel destined for a major Waikato project was found to be below standard.

The substandard steel piles were to be used on four bridges along the Huntly section of the Waikato Expressway.

...

Tony Dickens, project director of the joint venture, said quality issues were identified shortly after the steel arrived in February and strength tests were conducted.

The batch of below-strength steel forced a design rethink for two bridges along the section.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/ind...-strength-test

American steel requires some rigorous testing before it can be sold, but Chinese companies are not required to conduct these tests. These tests help keep buildings standing after a hurricane or earthquake and help prevent the steel from becoming brittle and beginning to crack when it is being welded.

Some Chinese companies were found putting Boron in their steel to earn a tax rebate. This addition to the steel makes the metal crack easier and is an overall safety hazard. While there are some welding methods that can help prevent the metal from cracking during welding, the exact amount of Boron added to the metal needs to be disclosed, which they often are not.

...

A good example of Chinese steel quality issues leading to potential danger is the Oakland Bay Bridge in San Francisco, California. The lower quality of the foreign steel was discovered in 2013 when a seismic test led to the discovery of 32 faulty rods that had to be replaced; they had been corroding in a large pool of water. This is especially problematic since the bridge practically connects two major fault lines, one of which was the cause of the big earthquake in 1989. A metallurgist testified that the Chinese steel was poor quality, and prone to embrittlement, which is why the rods cracked; during construction 750 panels cracked during welding and had to be replaced.

There have been a large number of reports of Chinese steel quality issues. Between 2011 and 2012 eight bridges in China, using Chinese steel, collapsed. In 2008 an earthquake struck the Sichuan province, and in one steel school that was poorly built, 700 children were crushed to death.

https://gensteel.com/building-faqs/b...-steel-quality

The article seer linked to earlier summarizes things quite nicely:

"The problem for President Trump?

"Once a nation is hooked on the cheap goods that are the narcotic free trade provides, it is rarely able to break free. The loss of its economic independence is followed by the loss of its political independence, the loss of its greatness and, ultimately, the loss of its national identity."

I'm old enough to remember when "Made in America" was a badge of pride.

[carpedm9587]

You get what you pay for, and Chinese made steel is no exception. It's easy to flood the market with cheap product when you don't care about the quality.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-c...0T71KV20151118

...1600 tonnes of Chinese steel destined for a major Waikato project was found to be below standard.

The substandard steel piles were to be used on four bridges along the Huntly section of the Waikato Expressway.

...

Tony Dickens, project director of the joint venture, said quality issues were identified shortly after the steel arrived in February and strength tests were conducted.

The batch of below-strength steel forced a design rethink for two bridges along the section.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/ind...-strength-test

American steel requires some rigorous testing before it can be sold, but Chinese companies are not required to conduct these tests. These tests help keep buildings standing after a hurricane or earthquake and help prevent the steel from becoming brittle and beginning to crack when it is being welded.

Some Chinese companies were found putting Boron in their steel to earn a tax rebate. This addition to the steel makes the metal crack easier and is an overall safety hazard. While there are some welding methods that can help prevent the metal from cracking during welding, the exact amount of Boron added to the metal needs to be disclosed, which they often are not.

...

A good example of Chinese steel quality issues leading to potential danger is the Oakland Bay Bridge in San Francisco, California. The lower quality of the foreign steel was discovered in 2013 when a seismic test led to the discovery of 32 faulty rods that had to be replaced; they had been corroding in a large pool of water. This is especially problematic since the bridge practically connects two major fault lines, one of which was the cause of the big earthquake in 1989. A metallurgist testified that the Chinese steel was poor quality, and prone to embrittlement, which is why the rods cracked; during construction 750 panels cracked during welding and had to be replaced.

There have been a large number of reports of Chinese steel quality issues. Between 2011 and 2012 eight bridges in China, using Chinese steel, collapsed. In 2008 an earthquake struck the Sichuan province, and in one steel school that was poorly built, 700 children were crushed to death.

https://gensteel.com/building-faqs/b...-steel-quality

The article seer linked to earlier summarizes things quite nicely:

"The problem for President Trump?

"Once a nation is hooked on the cheap goods that are the narcotic free trade provides, it is rarely able to break free. The loss of its economic independence is followed by the loss of its political independence, the loss of its greatness and, ultimately, the loss of its national identity."

I'm old enough to remember when "Made in America" was a badge of pride.

Boy - you guys cannot seem to help yourself with the "make my case anecdotes."

All three of these are marvelous examples of things that shouldn't happen. Now...can we see some statistics about what percentage of Chinese steel is evaluated as "substandard?" And why is the steel not being evaluated (and returned) before it is used if it is so bad?

A few stories is not "data." It's just a few stories. Where is the data?

[tabibito]

Well - there was the exploding watermelon saga a few years back. And I only knew of issues with imports to Japan ... but google search brings up stories about entire crops of watermelons exploding.

[JonathanL]

Well - there was the exploding watermelon saga a few years back. And I only knew of issues with imports to Japan ... but google search brings up stories about entire crops of watermelons exploding.

I've heard about kids wrapping rubber bands around watermelons in order to get them to explode, but I have to say that this is the first time I've ever heard of watermelons spontaneously going kablooey all on their own.

[tabibito]

It was a result of overdosing with a growth accelerator, "forchlorfenuron."

[carpedm9587]

Well - there was the exploding watermelon saga a few years back. And I only knew of issues with imports to Japan ... but google search brings up stories about entire crops of watermelons exploding.

OK - I just have to do this...

Imports to...?


(I looked for some youtube video...and stumbled across...

[tabibito]

OK - I just have to do this...

Imports to...?

Point of reference is the target ... no grammar problem, if that is what you are referring to. I was in Japan at the time, and that is where the problem came to my attention. Watermelons imported to Japan from China.

[carpedm9587]

Point of reference is the target ... no grammar problem, if that is what you are referring to. I was in Japan at the time, and that is where the problem came to my attention. Watermelons imported to Japan from China.

Ahh... that makes sense...

[Mountain Man]

Boy - you guys cannot seem to help yourself with the "make my case anecdotes."

All three of these are marvelous examples of things that shouldn't happen. Now...can we see some statistics about what percentage of Chinese steel is evaluated as "substandard?" And why is the steel not being evaluated (and returned) before it is used if it is so bad?

A few stories is not "data." It's just a few stories. Where is the data?

Right... idly dismiss any source of information that undermines your position. It's the carpe way!

Here's another source for you to ignore:

Source: China dumping unsafe steel products in Saudi

https://www.emirates247.com/business...03-16-1.584339

© Copyright Original Source

But, no, you're absolutely right, I'm sure the variety of sources I've quoted from have all gotten it wrong.

Meanwhile, another perspective on the trade war:

Source: Chinese Goods are Less Than 2 Percent of U.S Consumer Spending

https://www.breitbart.com/economy/20...umer-spending/

© Copyright Original Source

[carpedm9587]

Right... idly dismiss any source of information that undermines your position. It's the carpe way!

Here's another source for you to ignore:

Source: China dumping unsafe steel products in Saudi

China is dumping huge quantities of unsafe steel products in Saudi Arabia in the absence of effective government control

© Copyright Original Source

Source: China dumping unsafe steel products in Saudi

Actually, what I said was "where is the data about the percentage of Chinese steel that is flawed?" To that you give me yet another anecdote. Nicely done!

BTW - did you note the emphasized line? In order to have poor quality steel you have to have a) a poor quality source and b) either an indiscriminate buyer or poor government oversight.

https://www.emirates247.com/business...03-16-1.584339

© Copyright Original Source

But, no, you're absolutely right, I'm sure the variety of sources I've quoted from have all gotten it wrong.

Meanwhile, another perspective on the trade war:

Source: Chinese Goods are Less Than 2 Percent of U.S Consumer Spending

https://www.breitbart.com/economy/20...umer-spending/

© Copyright Original Source

OK - finally some data. I don't have time to parse this out, but I will try to get to it. Knowing it's source, there is a good chance they've managed to find a way to twist the statistics to tell the story they want to tell - but I'll check it out when I get a chance.

[seer]

Interesting...

New York Democrat Sen. Chuck Schumer tweeted a message of support for Trump’s tough stance on trade with China this week, telling the president to “hang tough.” He reiterated those comments in D.C. on Tuesday, saying China has stolen "trillions" of dollars from the U.S. and there should be no rush for the Trump administration to sign an agreement.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/...omething-china

Tom Friedman explains why he agrees with Trump's China trade approach

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2019/05/1...-approach.html

[firstfloor]

The trade war plays out:

Across the country, farm bankruptcies have surged 24% since September 2018, a few months after US trade disputes with China and other countries led to higher tariffs on key farm goods including soyabeans, cotton and dairy, according to analysis by the American Farm Bureau Federation.

BBC news

[whag]

I was watch this fellow on C-Span that past weekend who wrote a book on the economy. He was asked why CEO pay so outstripped the average wage over the last 30 years. One word, globalization. Of course if you can pay a worker one tenth of what you pay an American worker, with much lower regulation, the more profit for the companies, CEOs and owners. I'm a protectionist, I believe in protecting US jobs, as much as possible. Many may not like what Trump is trying to do (especially Wall Street) but at least he is trying. Bush one did nothing, Clinton did nothing, Bush two did nothing and neither did Obama. At least Trump is trying, especially with China. And I don't understand why liberals (the working man's friend) do not support this.