Originally posted by grmorton
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
Civics 101 Guidelines
Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less
The strange greatness of Donald Trump
Collapse
X
-
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI had to check - yes, it was 2 hours, but it flew by quickly. We need to do that again soon.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostYou didn't eat with your fingers again, did you?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
Comment
-
Originally posted by guacamole View PostIt sounds to me like you are arguing that reduced approval of the NHS specifically does not necessarily equate to reduced approval of socialized medicine in general?The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
Originally posted by grmorton View PostAny socialist medical system HAS to set the prices for what doctors are paid. In the UK that has ended up causing a doctor shortage which is why they are wanting to see 15 people at a time, so by the fact that you propose socialist medicine you are IMPLICITLY proposing this. Socialized medicine can't work if the doctors can charge whatever they want to.
Further, the reimbursement for a service is only one part of possible compensation (though the dominant part). Compensation is dictated by a combination of revenues and expenses. When a doctor works for a group - there are an enormous number of variables that can go into that formula, so it is a stretch to say that the government is dictating "what a doctor gets paid."
Originally posted by grmorton View PostIn the present situation, if your insurance refuses to pay, you can appeal to the government regulator or sue, as I threatened to do once. When the government decides what treatment you can have, there is no higher place to appeal. Their 'no' is final.
Originally posted by grmorton View PostThe reality is that no society has the money to pay for all the citizen's health care. All society's ration it via some means. In china, only the powerful have access to healthcare. The average joe has to save his money to pay for a surgery.
Originally posted by grmorton View PostI expect when people read something that they remember it or look it up to refresh their memory. You could have found those anti-Semitic verses if you had but had the curiousity. I don't like having to do research other people could easily have done. When you said there was nothing anti-Semitic in Islam, it was clear to me that you are not talking about the islam of the Koran but the Islam in your mind. One thing that does set me off is people being unwilling to verify what their fingers are about to type. Sorry, rant is over.
Originally posted by grmorton View PostThen we agree.
Originally posted by grmorton View PostYes, I know many are peaceful, but the problem lies in sorting them out. Every terrorist nutbag has been peaceful until he wasn't. Polls show 5-8% of Muslims support the extremist. Telling that 5-8% apart from the others is hard. A bigger problem to me is their general desire that Sharia be the law where they live. I don't want my granddaughters living under Sharia ever.
https://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/
Originally posted by grmorton View PostSo let's compare 2 sentences
Koran: take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors
Comparison: take not the Malaysians for your friends and protectors
As I understand you, the first statement is not anti-Semitic which would mean that the 2nd isn't either and still wouldn't be if Blacks were substituted for Malaysians!
I don't see how your argument could possibly hold. Please explain the difference if blacks were substituted for Malaysians--why that wouldn't be racist like the Koran's statement isn't.
You cannot make a 1:1 correspondence between these religious prohibitions and an anti-nation-X, anti-race-X, or anti-ethnicity-X statement outside the bounds of a religion. It's simply not comparable.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
Originally posted by grmorton View PostCarpe describing our healthcare system:
This shows he hasn't thought this through.
Controls are of 2 variety--controls on how much money will be spent or controls on who will get the care.
both controls end up meaning someone either gets bad superficial healthcare and a pat on the head from a doctor, or some people don't see a doctor at all. Which control do you think we should have Carpe?
Also, we have had limits on who can see a doctor under the current model. Indeed, the ACA requirement that coverage cannot be denied for pre-existing conditions (which Trump and the Republicans have been trying to get repealed) was exactly such a control.
Bottom line - as I said before - right now the final word on what will be covered is in the hands of a corporation out to maximize its profits - and there is very little competition. I have little/no control over that corporation. I'd be much happier with that being in the hands of the government I elect - where I can raise a stink, vote, or even run for office, if I don't like the choices they are making.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI disagree with your assumptions. First those are two controls, but they are not necessarily the right ones or only ones. Indeed, if "universal" coverage is to be extended, then it means the "who" is moot; everyone will have the same coverage. What is then to be decided is what will be covered, and the priority of treatment. That's called triage - and happens today. And even today I have to call my insurance company to get permission to get an MRI - which is sometimes denied. Personally, I think "elective" procedures should not be covered. I think resources should go to the most urgent need first.
Also, we have had limits on who can see a doctor under the current model. Indeed, the ACA requirement that coverage cannot be denied for pre-existing conditions (which Trump and the Republicans have been trying to get repealed) was exactly such a control.
Bottom line - as I said before - right now the final word on what will be covered is in the hands of a corporation out to maximize its profits - and there is very little competition. I have little/no control over that corporation. I'd be much happier with that being in the hands of the government I elect - where I can raise a stink, vote, or even run for office, if I don't like the choices they are making.
JimMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
Comment
-
Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostNot only do the republicans want to do away with the guarantee of coverage for pre-existing conditions, they lie about the fact that is the goal. That is one of the single best elements of the ACA and one of the truly disgusting aspects of for profit insurance without some sort of cohesive system in place to prevent abuse. You have insurance and get sick. You lose a job or change jobs and the insurance industry wants the right to sucker punch you and drop you in your time of need by refusing to cover your 'pre-existing condition'. And the republicans want to give them the right to do that - again.
Jim
They should rename the party "Retrumplicans." :The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
I keep pointing out that the economy, while doing reasonably well, is not doing as good for the working man as it is for businesses and the wealthy, and that Trump is taking a lot of credit for things that started long before he took office.
More evidence has come out concerning the first. While wages have been increasing, they are not generally increasing as much as COL is increasing (so many people are seeing an effective wage loss) and they are not increasing as fast as corporate profits (which predominantly benefit the wealthy). Wage growth has been on the decline since 2015, and has not been improved by Trump's policies. I've been trying to find the numbers for the last five quarters, but without success. If anyone has them, I'd like to see them.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostNot only do the republicans want to do away with the guarantee of coverage for pre-existing conditions, they lie about the fact that is the goal.
AFAICT, every plan that the Trump Administration has put forward included pre-existing conditions. Likewise, the various plans that Republicans in the House and Senate voted on during the first two years of Trump's term has included pre-existing conditions. However, a few of them weren't as extensive as what Obamacare covered.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
-
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostAFAICT, every plan that the Trump Administration has put forward included pre-existing conditions. Likewise, the various plans that Republicans in the House and Senate voted on during the first two years of Trump's term has included pre-existing conditions. However, a few of them weren't as extensive as what Obamacare covered.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostAnd yet...
AFAICT, every plan that the Trump Administration has put forward included pre-existing conditions. Likewise, the various plans that Republicans in the House and Senate voted on during the first two years of Trump's term has included pre-existing conditions. However, a few of them weren't as extensive as what Obamacare covered.
https://www.latimes.com/#nt=mastheadnavbar
what is happening in general is a very deceptive play on words. The promise is that you will not be denied coverage, which people think means if they have cancer and have to switch insurance, they will be covered. But then comes the bait abd switch. Yes, the insurance comoany cant deny you insurance 'coverage', but they CAN refuse to pay for the 'treatment' of specific pre-existing conditions.
So its just a big, fat lie facilitated by abusing the common understanding that being granted coverage means the insurance will in fact cover the treatment of that condition.
It is just amazing how evil people can be when it comes to making money.
JimLast edited by oxmixmudd; 05-12-2019, 02:02 PM.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
Comment
-
Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostTillis' bill is a bait and switch.
https://www.latimes.com/#nt=mastheadnavbar
what is happening in general is a very deceptive play on words. The promise is that you will not be denied coverage, which people think means if they have cancer and have to switch insurance, they will be covered. But then comes the bait abd switch. Yes, the insurance comoany cant deny you insurance 'coverage', but they CAN refuse to pay for the 'treatment' of specific pre-existing conditions.
So its just a big, fat lie facilitated by abusing the common understanding that being granted coverage means the insurance will in fact cover the treatment of that condition.
It is just amazing how evil people can be when it comes to making money.
JimThe ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostTillis' bill is a bait and switch.
https://www.latimes.com/#nt=mastheadnavbar
what is happening in general is a very deceptive play on words. The promise is that you will not be denied coverage, which people think means if they have cancer and have to switch insurance, they will be covered. But then comes the bait abd switch. Yes, the insurance comoany cant deny you insurance 'coverage', but they CAN refuse to pay for the 'treatment' of specific pre-existing conditions.
So its just a big, fat lie facilitated by abusing the common understanding that being granted coverage means the insurance will in fact cover the treatment of that condition.
It is just amazing how evil people can be when it comes to making money.
Jim
But here's the thing: why are we looking to government to fix a problem that is largely of their own making? As Ronald Reagan famously said, "Among the most frightening words in the English language are 'I'm from the government, and I'm here to help.'"Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
Comment
-
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI don't think that link is going where you think it is going...
https://www.latimes.com/business/hil...828-story.html
JimMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by Slave4Christ, Yesterday, 07:59 PM
|
0 responses
17 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Slave4Christ
Yesterday, 07:59 PM
|
||
Started by rogue06, 06-29-2024, 03:49 PM
|
18 responses
148 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Ronson
Yesterday, 02:31 PM
|
||
Started by seer, 06-28-2024, 11:42 AM
|
39 responses
204 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Stoic
Yesterday, 02:57 PM
|
||
Started by Cow Poke, 06-28-2024, 10:24 AM
|
23 responses
165 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Ronson
Yesterday, 07:16 PM
|
||
Started by VonTastrophe, 06-28-2024, 10:22 AM
|
33 responses
195 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Slave4Christ
Yesterday, 07:07 PM
|
Comment