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The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostReligious beliefs are not an excuse for discrimination, CP. They never will be, except to those who keep trying to defend their discrimination in those terms. The rest of us won't accept it. And calling out bigotry/discrimination is not bigotry/discrimination, and is not an "attack," no matter how many times people on the right try to make that claim.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostWell since your moral sense reflects nothing more than a relative personal or cultural consideration, we can rationally discount it.
Any moral agent can discount any other moral agent's preferences. That's essentially what I am doing related to yours. I see no value in your preferences (for this topic) and so reject them. You see no value in mine, so reject them. That's how it works.
However, thankfully, that rejection won't change the shifts society is making towards inclusion and acceptance.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostHowever, thankfully, that rejection won't change the shifts society is making towards inclusion and acceptance.
Your inclusion and acceptance Carp is a one way street and hypocritical.Last edited by seer; 05-13-2019, 12:08 PM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostRight, back to appealing to the majority. So unoriginal...
Originally posted by seer View PostAnd where is the inclusion and acceptance for the religious baker, photographer or florist who do not want to participate in a Homosexual wedding? Or religious parents who can't opt-out LGBT sex ed? https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/ca...ew-lgbt-sex-ed
Your inclusion and acceptance Carp is a one way street and hypocritical.
There is no hypocrisy here, no matter how upset you might be to find yourself on the receiving end of the rejection. I will always reject philosophies rooted in discrimination and harm.Last edited by carpedm9587; 05-13-2019, 12:26 PM.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostYou can discount it if you wish, Seer.
Any moral agent can discount any other moral agent's preferences. That's essentially what I am doing related to yours. I see no value in your preferences (for this topic) and so reject them. You see no value in mine, so reject them. That's how it works.
However, thankfully, that rejection won't change the shifts society is making towards inclusion and acceptance.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostNoting what is happening in society is not "appealing to the majority," Seer. At no point did I say, "it's good because everyone is doing it." THAT is appealing to the majority. Simply noting what the majority are doing is not. In other words, I am gratified that the majority is moving in a direction my moral framework says is "moral." I do not hold my moral stance because the majority is moving in that direction. You make this mistake pretty frequently.
I make no bones about not being "inclusive" of bigotry, prejudice, and discrimination, Seer. Your question here is akin to "where is your inclusion for the klansman and the neo-nazi, Carpe?" Taking a stand against an unjust and harm mindset and philosophy is just that: standing against injustice and harm. I'm sure the klansman and neo-nazi likewise feel "excluded." They can stop being "excluded" as soon as they stop promulgating a discriminatory and harmful philosophy. So too with those who reject, and discriminate against, the LGBTQ community.
There is no hypocrisy here, no matter how upset you might be to find yourself on the receiving end of the rejection. I will always reject philosophies rooted in discrimination and harm.Last edited by seer; 05-13-2019, 12:48 PM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostRight so we are back to a majority of one, it is good because it conforms to what you happen to prefer today.
Originally posted by seer View PostRight, so that makes your principles of inclusion and acceptance with out depth, reactionary, and relative.
Originally posted by seer View PostIt doesn't bother you in the least to use the state to force a religious person to violate his deeply held convictions, or force LGBT sex ed on kids and parents that don't want it. This is leftist fascism, which you applaud. And a violation Constitutional principles.
I am sorry, for you, Seer, that you have elected to adopt the stance you have adopted. But, as you note, there is little I can do about it until you decide to root your morality in something other than an ancient collection of books. Until then - you will follow them blindly and they will take you to places that I (and society, increasingly) no longer find acceptable. I'm not going to stay silent because it offends you. I would not do that for the white supremacist or antisemite, and I certainly won't do it for someone taking a stance against the LGBTQ community.
Although our Constitution contains many bigoted components, history has followed an arc towards eliminating those components, and rejecting them as a matter of public policy. I endorse that arc - and support it continuing in that direction.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by rogue06At the rate we are going I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised that in less than a decade's time someone is saying the same thing about pedophilia, incest or bestiality.
Yea us
Sorry, Rogue - the argument really doesn't say anything. White supremacists also bemoaned (and still bemoan) the slippery slope that would introduce all sorts of social ills. I don't subscribe to the premise that taking a stand against bigotry and prejudice is "a social ill."Last edited by carpedm9587; 05-13-2019, 01:12 PM.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostI used to think that it would be a few decades before inclusiveness and acceptance extended to people who choose to dissent. Now - I wouldn't be surprised if we see it happen within one decade. But then - my definition of inclusion and acceptance embraces somewhat more than the elite, aka the politically correct.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostThat old chestnut! I had a side bet that it would be Sparko, MM, or Seer that would toss it in. I completely forgot about you - but it fits.
Sorry, Rogue - the argument really doesn't say anything. White supremacists also bemoaned (and still bemoan) the slippery slope that would introduce all sorts of social ills. I don't subscribe to the premise that taking a stand against bigotry and prejudice is "a social ill."1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostThat old chestnut! I had a side bet that it would be Sparko, MM, or Seer that would toss it in. I completely forgot about you - but it fits.
Sorry, Rogue - the argument really doesn't say anything. White supremacists also bemoaned (and still bemoan) the slippery slope that would introduce all sorts of social ills. I don't subscribe to the premise that taking a stand against bigotry and prejudice is "a social ill."
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostAre you sure that is what you are doing? To me, that would mean a adopting a live and let live attitude.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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