No Collusion!

[Cow Poke]

That's correct, some do, but most of us don't want to begin the impeachment process right away, we want hearings and public testimony so that those who aren't as politically aware, as well as those republicans who are in denial, can see for themselves whether the impeachment process should proceed, or not. Those who want impeachment to begin, want that because they have seen the evidence and to them the evidence of guilt is obvious. Polls on this basically mean nothing at this point, because whatever the truth of the investigation is, is not apparent yet to the general public. Trump, and Atty Gen Barr are aware of that, which is why they tried to hide it behind the Atty Gen's false rendering of the Mueller report. Don't be afraid of transparency, MM, your Country is at stake, democracy is at stake. You should welcome the hearings, not fear them.

You guys are playing right into Trump's hands - he loves fight, and will continue to make it a campaign issue. The Mueller report was a big flop. YUGE. Keep repeating those talking points, Jim, and Trump will get a second term.

[Mountain Man]

That's correct, some do, but most of us don't want to begin the impeachment process right away, we want hearings and public testimony so that those who aren't as politically aware, as well as those republicans who are in denial, can see for themselves whether the impeachment process should proceed, or not. Those who want impeachment to begin, want that because they have seen the evidence and to them the evidence of guilt is obvious. Polls on this basically mean nothing at this point, because whatever the truth of the investigation is, is not apparent yet to the general public. Trump, and Atty Gen Barr are aware of that, which is why they tried to hide it behind the Atty Gen's false rendering of the Mueller report. Don't be afraid of transparency, MM, your Country is at stake, democracy is at stake. You should welcome the hearings, not fear them.

I got less than half-way through this post before it started to sound like "Wah wah wah wah wah" (think trumpet, not baby).

[JimL]

You guys are playing right into Trump's hands - he loves fight, and will continue to make it a campaign issue. The Mueller report was a big flop. YUGE. Keep repeating those talking points, Jim, and Trump will get a second term.

Don't fear transparency CP.

[Cow Poke]

Don't fear transparency CP.

You need your diaper changed again, Jimmy. And I don't fear transparency. Not even a teeny little tad. But DO keep spewing forth those talking points for liberal dummies!!!!

[JimL]

You need your diaper changed again, Jimmy. And I don't fear transparency. Not even a teeny little tad. But DO keep spewing forth those talking points for liberal dummies!!!!

Sure you do, CP. We can all see that, you are all scared to death of Congressional hearings, because we know that you're not a complete idiot, and you know as well as we do, but can't admit, that Atty Gen. Barrs renedering of the Mueller report was a bunch of BS. You're afraid that will be exposed just like Barr himself is which is why he is himself threatening not to appear before Congress.

[Cow Poke]

Sure you do, CP. We can all see that,

Who's "we", Jimmy? You and your fax machine?

you are all scared to death of Congressional hearings, because we know that you're not a complete idiot,

You got "complete idiot" pretty much covered yourself, so...

and you know as well as we do, but can't admit, that Atty Gen. Barrs renedering of the Mueller report was a bunch of BS. You're afraid that will be exposed just like Barr himself is which is why he is himself threatening not to appear before Congress.

You really REALLY suck at mind reading. I'm afraid of no such thing. Whatever will be, will be, and I'll roll with the flow. You just continue being the lovable little you are, spewing forth jackassery. If THAT were to change, I'd be concerned.

[Cow Poke]

First off Rasmussen is a biased pollster, and second, what the majority of americans want is public hearings which is what Trump and you are afraid of. Impeachment would come after that although he may be ousted by the electorate by that time if his stalling/obstruction technique works to his corrupt advantage. Then he, like so many of his appointed cronies, you know, the swamp, will still have to face the many financial crimes he is accused of in State courts. That's your guy! Your team!

First off Rasmussen is a biased pollster, and second, what the majority of americans want is public hearings which is what Trump and you are afraid of. Impeachment would come after that although he may be ousted by the electorate by that time if his stalling/obstruction technique works to his corrupt advantage.

So now you've gone to regurgitating your talking points for liberal dummies TWICE? Maybe, somehow, that makes them truerererer?

[The Pendragon]

That's correct, some do, but most of us don't want to begin the impeachment process right away, we want hearings and public testimony so that those who aren't as politically aware, as well as those republicans who are in denial, can see for themselves whether the impeachment process should proceed, or not.

Now Tass, This is a classic example of "Gish-Gallop" style that Jiml is showing here. Way to go JimL.
Who is this we he speaks of?
Where are his sources?
This is all opinion posing as fact.

Hence "Gish-Gallop"

Tass you should be happy that JimL has given you a very good example of the "Gish-Gallop style of writing" hope you can learn from this. I tried to keep it to single syllable words so you and JimL would understand.

Those who want impeachment to begin, want that because they have seen the evidence and to them the evidence of guilt is obvious.

JimL the evidence is obvious (that's your words not mine). If its so obvious please enlighten us. You see it don't you, I have not seen you give the evidence. Or have you seen the whole un-redacted document, please enlighten us share your wisdom.
But, before you do remember what the report said. In short:

(1) "No American colluded with Russia" Quote from the document (Last time I check Trump was an American.)

(2) The Second part of the Mueller report started by telling us that they could not find evidence of "obstruction of justice" in a court of law when a prosecutor tells the Judge that there is no evidence the automatic judgment is not guilty, nothing else the prosecutor says is taken into account. It is not up to the defense to prove evidence, it only needs to refute the evidence the prosecutor brings no evidence no guilt. Its not the prosecutions job to absolve anyone of a crime just present the evidence. So it means nothing when Mueller says he can't exonerate Tump its true because he legally can't do it (Not his Job Man), His saying that he found no evidence of "obstruction of justice" that is the exoneration.
All this stuff that follows is just sour grapes from the investigation team.

So, now that I have educated you, I ask again. What evidence do you have that Mueller could not find after 2yrs, over 300 witnesses, and 3 mil. pages of documents could not find?
You can impress me if you can tell me, if you can't you and Tass are just like a pair of three year olds crying because you did not get what you wanted.

Polls on this basically mean nothing at this point,

Thank you for making our point that your polls don't prove that the majority of Americans want Trump Impeached. It make it easier for us when you admit you where wrong.

because whatever the truth of the investigation is, is not apparent yet to the general public. Trump, and Atty Gen Barr are aware of that, which is why they tried to hide it behind the Atty Gen's false rendering of the Mueller report. Don't be afraid of transparency, MM, your Country is at stake, democracy is at stake. You should welcome the hearings, not fear them.

As I stated above the Mueller Report only proves that Trump is "not guilty" of 'collusion with Russia', or 'obstruction of justice'. Remember: No Evidence = Not Guilty.

Also, it hard to say the Trump is a traitor if you can't prove collusion. It's obvious to me that there is no "there there". And unlike you I can only speak for myself (Others will agree with me if they like). You claim to speak for the faceless masses (Most of them you have never met).

Tass, JimL, I am truly sorry for the long post I know it hard for you to read a post this long.

[Tassman]

Right... and do you find it just as significant that at least half have accepted Mueller's findings that the President committed no crimes,

Obstruction of Justice is a crime. And Mueller specified apparent Obstruction of Justice on 10 separate occasions in his Report,

and they wish the Democrat party would do something more productive than continue their witch-hunt?

Easily fixed. Allow Congress do it's job of presidential oversight and respond to it's subpoenas, rather than doing everything possible to sweep it all under the carpet.

[The Pendragon]

Obstruction of Justice is a crime. And Mueller specified apparent Obstruction of Justice on 10 separate occasions in his Report,

I guess you could not read all of my post the minute Mueller stated that he had not conclusive evidence. the game is over for Obstruction of Justice. Again No Evidence = Not guilty
If you would have read my post (the one right above yours) you would have known that the 10 instances in the report where just sour grapes from the Mueller Team.

The details are in the post just above yours, the above is just a summery.

Easily fixed. Allow Congress do it's job of presidential oversight and respond to it's subpoenas, rather than doing everything possible to sweep it all under the carpet.

Oversight on what? Mueller was their Oversight. He has spent 2 yrs. interviewed over 300 people, and gotten over 1 Million pages of documentation, without Trump using executive privilege, and he could not find surfactant evidence to bring a conviction on Obstruction of Justice.

So none of the 10 instances you are talking about are proof of Obstruction of Justice (this according to Mueller) so they are zeros as far as adding up to Obstruction of Justice. 10 X 0 is still 0.

The Key here is that Mueller said in the report that He could not have accrual evidence of Obstruction of Justice. Again No Evidence = Not guilty. That is the way it works in the U.S.A.

I know that the post is long but before you try to answer Mountain Man you need to disprove my post, you know the one right above yours. I know it's hard with all that reading that you and JimL dislike so much. But I tried to keep it as simple as I could so that you two could understand.

[Tassman]

I guess you could not read all of my post the minute Mueller stated that he had not conclusive evidence. the game is over for Obstruction of Justice. Again No Evidence = Not guilty
If you would have read my post (the one right above yours) you would have known that the 10 instances in the report where just sour grapes from the Mueller Team.

The details are in the post just above yours, the above is just a summery.


Oversight on what? Mueller was their Oversight. He has spent 2 yrs. interviewed over 300 people, and gotten over 1 Million pages of documentation, without Trump using executive privilege, and he could not find surfactant evidence to bring a conviction on Obstruction of Justice.

So none of the 10 instances you are talking about are proof of Obstruction of Justice (this according to Mueller) so they are zeros as far as adding up to Obstruction of Justice. 10 X 0 is still 0.

[FONT=arial]The Key here is that Mueller said in the report that He could not have accrual evidence of Obstruction of Justice. Again No Evidence = Not guilty. That is the way it works in the U.S.A.[/FONT

I know that the post is long but before you try to answer Mountain Man you need to disprove my post, you know the one right above yours. I know it's hard with all that reading that you and JimL dislike so much. But I tried to keep it as simple as I could so that you two could understand.

[Mountain Man]

(2) The Second part of the Mueller report started by telling us that they could not find evidence of "obstruction of justice" in a court of law when a prosecutor tells the Judge that there is no evidence the automatic judgment is not guilty, nothing else the prosecutor says is taken into account. It is not up to the defense to prove evidence, it only needs to refute the evidence the prosecutor brings no evidence no guilt. Its not the prosecutions job to absolve anyone of a crime just present the evidence. So it means nothing when Mueller says he can't exonerate Tump its true because he legally can't do it (Not his Job Man), His saying that he found no evidence of "obstruction of justice" that is the exoneration.
All this stuff that follows is just sour grapes from the investigation team.

Exactly. This is why I say that Mueller's statement that he couldn't conclude that the President committed any crimes, but he couldn't exonerate was more politics than legal opinion.

[Mountain Man]

Pendragon already answered this: "...in a court of law when a prosecutor tells the Judge that there is no evidence the automatic judgment is not guilty, nothing else the prosecutor says is taken into account."

The second Mueller himself admitted that he couldn't conclude that the President had committed any crimes, it was game over as far as obstruction of justice is concerned, no exoneration necessary.

[Mountain Man]

If Mueller's case for obstruction were in any way damning then Washington Democrats would be quoting from the report itself and preparing to impeach instead of gearing up for endless hearings and investigations.

[JimL]

I guess you could not read all of my post the minute Mueller stated that he had not conclusive evidence. the game is over for Obstruction of Justice. Again No Evidence = Not guilty
If you would have read my post (the one right above yours) you would have known that the 10 instances in the report where just sour grapes from the Mueller Team.

The details are in the post just above yours, the above is just a summery.


Oversight on what? Mueller was their Oversight. He has spent 2 yrs. interviewed over 300 people, and gotten over 1 Million pages of documentation, without Trump using executive privilege, and he could not find surfactant evidence to bring a conviction on Obstruction of Justice.

So none of the 10 instances you are talking about are proof of Obstruction of Justice (this according to Mueller) so they are zeros as far as adding up to Obstruction of Justice. 10 X 0 is still 0.

The Key here is that Mueller said in the report that He could not have accrual evidence of Obstruction of Justice. Again No Evidence = Not guilty. That is the way it works in the U.S.A.

I know that the post is long but before you try to answer Mountain Man you need to disprove my post, you know the one right above yours. I know it's hard with all that reading that you and JimL dislike so much. But I tried to keep it as simple as I could so that you two could understand.

Even the republicans favorite judge and Fox news legal analyst, Judge Nepolitano, disagrees with you regarding obstruction. That you can't see or understand the evidence is on you. And btw, you don't understand how impeachment works either, it's a political proceeding, not criminal proceeding. Anyone with a brain can see what the president has done and is doing with regaeds to collusion, conspiracy, and obstruction, not to mention the undermining of our democratic Institutions. Congress, and the american people will ultimately decide what to do about it, not a criminal court.