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Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Roy View PostNo. It surprised me.
Perhaps you don't want to see it.
The "best (worst) case" of somebody doing something hideous "in the name of Jesus (or God)" would be, what... the person who attacks an abortion clinic? Kills an abortion doctor?
If, in fact, the person who does that WAS a Christian, and was doing it in the name of Jesus (or God) - it is CLEARLY against anything we New Testament Christians are taught, and there is ZERO teaching from Jesus that we should act in that manner.
If it's demonstrable that he was not a Christian - that should be pointed out. If he WAS a Christian, it should be pointed out that he does not represent what Christianity teaches in any way, shape or form.
OTOH, somebody doing something hideous while yelling "Allahu Akbar" is very clearly doing it in the name of Allah, and there is plenty of reason he's doing it because his religion justifies it.
What am I missing?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Ignorant Roy View PostNo. It surprised me.
Perhaps you don't want to see it.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Roy View PostIt's what I've observed.
The usual response to Christians committing violence is to deny that the perpetrators are Christians. Not to admit that they are Christians that have sinned or erred or otherwise fallen short of expectations, or that they are Christians who have different views on how Christians should act, but to deny they are Christians.
There are several examples in this thread, and more in the threads I linked to.
And for anyone forgetting history here is a few quotes from a guy I am yet to see anyone deny was a Christian, namely the reformer Martin Luther. In the quotes below he is talking about Jews:
First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians, and do not condone or knowingly tolerate such public lying, cursing, and blaspheming of his Son and of his Christians.Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. For they pursue in them the same aims as in their synagogues. Instead they might be lodged under a roof or in a barn, like the gypsies. This will bring home to them that they are not masters in our country, as they boast, but that they are living in exile and in captivity, as they incessantly wail and lament about us before God.
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Originally posted by Charles View PostThe first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostWow, Charles, you had to go back over FOUR HUNDRED YEARS to come up with your best example? Good job!!! I'm really doubting Roy was alive then, unless there's something else we need to know about him.
Anyway, it is no secret at all that Luther's ideas influenced the church in Germany during the nazi era and served as a justification for violence, hatred and killing of the jews. From Britannica:
The idea that the Jews were evil persisted during the Protestant Reformation. Although Martin Luther expressed positive feelings about Jews, especially earlier in his life, and relied on Jewish scholars for his translation of the Hebrew scriptures into German, he became furious with Jews over their rejection of Jesus. We are at fault for not slaying them, he wrote. Rather we allow them to live freely in our midst despite their murder, cursing, blaspheming, lying and defaming. Such views were emphasized by the Nazis. They were renounced by the Lutheran ChurchMissouri Synod in 1983 and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America in 1994. https://www.britannica.com/topic/ant...edieval-Europe
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Originally posted by Charles View PostSo, your best argument is to point to it being old? Is that all you can do?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostRead the thread, Chuckie, that is obviously NOT "the best argument I can make", as I have numerous posts about it in this thread. PLEASE try to pay attention.Last edited by Charles; 02-04-2019, 01:18 PM.
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Originally posted by Charles View PostWonder why you go for the worse arguments if you can do better.
Here's an example of my actual argument.
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostSo, what's your real point, Roy?
The "best (worst) case" of somebody doing something hideous "in the name of Jesus (or God)" would be, what... the person who attacks an abortion clinic? Kills an abortion doctor?
If, in fact, the person who does that WAS a Christian, and was doing it in the name of Jesus (or God) - it is CLEARLY against anything we New Testament Christians are taught, and there is ZERO teaching from Jesus that we should act in that manner.
If it's demonstrable that he was not a Christian - that should be pointed out. If he WAS a Christian, it should be pointed out that he does not represent what Christianity teaches in any way, shape or form.
OTOH, somebody doing something hideous while yelling "Allahu Akbar" is very clearly doing it in the name of Allah, and there is plenty of reason he's doing it because his religion justifies it.
What am I missing?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostPointing out that you have to go more than 400 years ago for your best argument is not my "best argument" on the subject.
Here's an example of my actual argument.
But do feel free to continue ing - better if you do it in your car, Chuck.
You are yet to provide any reason why it was important that it was old, and you are yet to confront why you ignored it when I pointed out that the idea had been used to support the nazis. It seems you can't adress it, or am I wrong?
What you point to as your best argument is not very strong at all. You claim "[...]he does not represent what Christianity teaches in any way, shape or form." That is, you are taking your own interpretation of what Christianity is for granted. The real deal is it can be interpreted in different ways some of which are rather unplesant but often shared and supported on tweb.
Sessions justified family separations with Bible references while many Christians called it unchristian. Luther and his anti semitism has been accepted by people calling themselves Christians for centuries. Nazism was accepted in parts of the Church.
There are people on tweb whom I would say support ideas that contradict what Christianity teaches in any way, shape or form but yet they call themselves Christians. It seems to me that you are unaware of the level of interpretation you live in and how history, culture and humanism helped form your ideas that you seemingly think are just a pure reading of "the good book".
So, perhaps you could actually learn something by going 400 years back in history. Not saying all interpretations are equally good, but they are there and point to the fact that interpretations differ, change in order to fit society, culture, science and so on. Today we are witnessing how Evangelicals are reinterpreting scripture in order to secure their own political goals. They are blind to the change to a very high degree. They forget that they are interpreting.
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Originally posted by Charles View PostPersonal attacks will not strengthen your case, sorry.
You are yet to provide any reason why it was important that it was old...The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostObserving that fact that you are a is not a personal attack, Charles.
Is this another case where you're going to badger and badger until you get an answer, then disappear like smoke in the wind?
Feel free to provide stuff of substance on what I wrote.
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Originally posted by Charles View PostYou have just ignored most of my post.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostWow, Charles, you had to go back over FOUR HUNDRED YEARS to come up with your best example? Good job!!! I'm really doubting Roy was alive then, unless there's something else we need to know about him.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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