Originally posted by carpedm9587
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostHere we disagree. I see all of them as having some responsibility - but I also want to be careful. Kids sometimes "act out" - despite any parenting or guidance they have received. So I'm not a fan of "jumping on parents" or local church leaders until there is evidence that they really did not do what they should have as parents (beyond their children acting out).The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostBut you are a fan of "jumping on Trump" even if you have to use specious reasoning to justify it.
There is no doubt in my mind that Trump is a vile man. He confirms it daily with his tweets, speeches, and choices. What I find continually amazing is the degree to which conservatives and evangelicals will go to explain away those attributes. IMO, those who continually do so have lost any claim to a moral high ground.Last edited by carpedm9587; 01-20-2019, 08:16 AM.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI think you might be surprised how many times, when called to the police station to pick up their "child" who had been involved in bad behavior, the 'parents' seem more annoyed that the police messed with their kids than that their kids acted like jackasses.
Fortunately, three years later, he suddenly locked onto "I want to be healthy" and today he is amazingly fit - with very little trace of fat on any part of his frame, and a physique I have never attained myself.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostOh I would not be surprised at all, having dealt with that very situation many times. My point was simply that one cannot assume "bad parenting" because a child acts out. IMO, a parent can screw up badly and mess up their children - but the best parenting in the world is not a guarantee that a child will not go astray....
As the father of a "prodigal daughter" - I used to literally lay awake at nights wondering why one of my daughters was on the "straight and narrow", and her older sister seemed to get into every conceivable "bad thing" imaginable.
In fact, I used to think that my older daughter used to stay up at night pondering "what can I do to make my Dad really REALLY lose it!"
I wondered how the same family with the same parents with the same rules could produce so drastically different offspring.
Fortunately, within the past 6 months, "prodigal daughter" "came to herself" (Luke 15:17) and has made a remarkable change for the better, and grows in Grace every day.
So, yes, you cannot just assume bad parenting when you see bad behavior in kids, and, as I already pointed out, I've seen many times where kids will do as a group what none of those kids would have done as an individual.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI'm a fan of pointing out poor behavior and choices in our leaders when it is manifest.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by MankyScotsGit View PostThere's a clip which seems to show the Indigenous guy approach the kids, get in their faces, and tell them to "go back to Europe". I'm not linking to it because I'm not certain if it's authentic or not, but there probably are at least 2 sides to this story.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostYes.
As the father of a "prodigal daughter" - I used to literally lay awake at nights wondering why one of my daughters was on the "straight and narrow", and her older sister seemed to get into every conceivable "bad thing" imaginable.
In fact, I used to think that my older daughter used to stay up at night pondering "what can I do to make my Dad really REALLY lose it!"
I wondered how the same family with the same parents with the same rules could produce so drastically different offspring.
Fortunately, within the past 6 months, "prodigal daughter" "came to herself" (Luke 15:17) and has made a remarkable change for the better, and grows in Grace every day.
So, yes, you cannot just assume bad parenting when you see bad behavior in kids, and, as I already pointed out, I've seen many times where kids will do as a group what none of those kids would have done as an individual.
But I wasn't saying that I blame the parents in this case, only that if you're going to blame anybody other than the kids themselves then blaming their parents makes more sense than blaming the President.Last edited by Mountain Man; 01-20-2019, 09:20 AM.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by MankyScotsGit View PostThere's a clip which seems to show the Indigenous guy approach the kids, get in their faces, and tell them to "go back to Europe". I'm not linking to it because I'm not certain if it's authentic or not, but there probably are at least 2 sides to this story.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostYes.
As the father of a "prodigal daughter" - I used to literally lay awake at nights wondering why one of my daughters was on the "straight and narrow", and her older sister seemed to get into every conceivable "bad thing" imaginable.
In fact, I used to think that my older daughter used to stay up at night pondering "what can I do to make my Dad really REALLY lose it!"
I wondered how the same family with the same parents with the same rules could produce so drastically different offspring.
Fortunately, within the past 6 months, "prodigal daughter" "came to herself" (Luke 15:17) and has made a remarkable change for the better, and grows in Grace every day.
So, yes, you cannot just assume bad parenting when you see bad behavior in kids, and, as I already pointed out, I've seen many times where kids will do as a group what none of those kids would have done as an individual.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostThen point out the bad behaviour. Don't point to somebody else's bad behaviour and say, "It's Trump's fault!"
Trump did not "make this kid do this." But he certainly is guilty of contributing to a culture and society that increasingly leans in that direction.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by MankyScotsGit View PostThere's a clip which seems to show the Indigenous guy approach the kids, get in their faces, and tell them to "go back to Europe". I'm not linking to it because I'm not certain if it's authentic or not, but there probably are at least 2 sides to this story.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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I also feel that this kind of meme is simply uncalled for. Yes - I think that young man needs to face some serious consequences for his actions. I suspect his face being plastered across the country as the poster boy for bad behavior might be at least part of that consequence. Suggesting that he should have never been born is just unnecessarily ugly.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostAt no point did I say that "Trump is to blame for this kid's actions." Trump IS to blame, however, for contributing to an atmosphere where bullying, ridicule, and harassment are considered "acceptable behavior." From the bully pulpit of the White House and the executive office he holds, he demonstrates this behavior on a daily basis.
Trump did not "make this kid do this." But he certainly is guilty of contributing to a culture and society that increasingly leans in that direction.
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