A Question of Respect?

[carpedm9587]

It's the title of the thread, remember?

The title is a question, CP - not a statement. It says, "Is this face-off about respect?"

[Cow Poke]

The title is a question, CP - not a statement. It says, "Is this face-off about respect?"

Please tell me, and use your "I'm HONEST" face ---- it was not a question of the kid respecting the Native American. How else does your OP make sense?

[carpedm9587]

It's the title of the thread, remember?

How bout the other part....

Ah, OK, so to what do you attribute your reluctance to call him what he is?

He is an activist. He has apparently lied about his military service. He is Native American. He doesn't appear to be a very pleasant person. It's not clear that he bathes regularly. I don't have the impression he is very educated or articulate.

I'm not exactly sure what it is that I need to say to satisfy you... what would you like me to call him? A hack?

[carpedm9587]

Please tell me, and use your "I'm HONEST" face ---- it was not a question of the kid respecting the Native American. How else does your OP make sense?

Yes - it was. The initial video looked very much like a young man disrespecting an older man. Frankly, it still does. Hence the question - to raise the discussion. Which it apparently has. My initial impression, frankly, was that this was a young Trump supporter flexing his anti-immigration attitude. As more information came out, however, that initial impression was shown to be most likely wrong. At this point, I'm not really sure what his motivation was. I know what he says it was, and I know what Phillips says it was. That's about it.

I guess I'm still not sure what the problem is...?

[mossrose]

He is an activist. He has apparently lied about his military service. He is Native American. He doesn't appear to be a very pleasant person. It's not clear that he bathes regularly. I don't have the impression he is very educated or articulate.

I'm not exactly sure what it is that I need to say to satisfy you... what would you like me to call him? A hack?

Call him a big fat liar, just like you call Trump.

And let me tell you, that young man showed great restraint after having that drum beaten in his face for so long. I would have taken the drum and broken it over Phillip's head.

So, who showed more disrespect? Not the young man.

This whole thing is absolutely outrageous, blown out of proportion by the media and the left.

[Cow Poke]

Yes - it was. The initial video looked very much like a young man disrespecting an older man.

Before we knew "the rest of the story".

Frankly, it still does.

Because he didn't turn tail and run from the lying activist who got right up his personal space?

Hence the question - to raise the discussion. Which it apparently has. My initial impression, frankly, was that this was a young Trump supporter flexing his anti-immigration attitude.

And that was exactly the intent of the video, and you got snookered.

As more information came out, however, that initial impression was shown to be most likely wrong.

MOST LIKELY?!?!?! Sheeeesh, Carpe, you're like a Scientologist who signed over his life and just can't bring himself to admit he got SNOOKERED.

At this point, I'm not really sure what his motivation was. I know what he says it was, and I know what Phillips says it was. That's about it.

I guess I'm still not sure what the problem is...?

I could tell you, but I'm going to be kind.

[Cow Poke]

He is an activist. He has apparently lied about his military service.

No - it's a FACT -- you can watch the video of the guy sitting there lying his teeth out.

He is Native American.

And I think this might be why you simply can't admit he's a liar.

He doesn't appear to be a very pleasant person. It's not clear that he bathes regularly. I don't have the impression he is very educated or articulate.

I'm not exactly sure what it is that I need to say to satisfy you... what would you like me to call him? A hack?

Naw, you can keep doing your kabuki dance.

[carpedm9587]

Call him a big fat liar, just like you call Trump.

Trump is an admitted, chronic, provable liar. So far I have found that Phillips has been misleading/deceptive about one thing - his military service. And the outright deception happened once, so I am not even certain he was lying or just slipped up. So no - I'm not going to call him a "big fat liar" until I have cause to know he is.

And let me tell you, that young man showed great restraint after having that drum beaten in his face for so long. I would have taken the drum and broken it over Phillip's head.

So, who showed more disrespect? Not the young man.

Yeah - well - I don't share your perspective. I'm willing to withhold a definitive judgment - but I am pretty skeptical about the young man. And his performance during his interview didn't do much to impress me that my initial impression was wrong.

This whole thing is absolutely outrageous, blown out of proportion by the media and the left.

ON that we agree - the left jumped too fast and too hard. To some degree - I fell for it by basing my OP on the initial video - instead of waiting for the inevitable "other shoe" to drop. In hindsight, it would have been better if I had waited. That being said, I can't say I find the reaction of the right any more or less vitriolic or emotional than the initial reaction from the left. Both extremes appear to be equally ready to villify the other side.

[Cow Poke]

Trump is an admitted, chronic, provable liar. So far I have found that Phillips has been misleading/deceptive about one thing - his military service.

He FLAT OUT LIED.... multiple times... and when he didn't actually say the words, he purposely gave the impression --- his WHOLE ADULT LIFE. The man is a LIAR. His LIFE is a LIE, and he capitalizes on that with his political activism.

You simply can't say that because he's a Native American.

If the roles were reversed --- if it had been a WHITE MAN advancing in a menacing manner on an AMERICAN INDIAN, you'd see this completely differently.

[carpedm9587]

Before we knew "the rest of the story".

Well, from my perspective the jury is still out. Most of the "rest of the story" being put forward here is based on a great deal of speculation and, as best I can tell, outright hatred.

Because he didn't turn tail and run from the lying activist who got right up his personal space?

No.

And that was exactly the intent of the video, and you got snookered.

I jumped too quickly - yes. As I noted in the other post, waiting for the inevitable "other shoe" to drop would have changed how I had written the OP to some degree. Snookered? No.

MOST LIKELY?!?!?! Sheeeesh, Carpe, you're like a Scientologist who signed over his life and just can't bring himself to admit he got SNOOKERED.

The part that was pretty clearly wrong, CP, was my association of the exchange with the immigration issue. The disrespect part I don't really think was wrong. I'll give the kid the break of saying "I can't say for certain," but I'm not impressed by the young man - not any more than I am impressed by Phillips.

I could tell you, but I'm going to be kind.

As you wish...

[Cow Poke]

Well, from my perspective the jury is still out.

I'm DONE here. You can have the last word. I'm leaving the thread, never to come back*!!!!!





*in a Carpeian kind of way, which means I'll be back again and again.

[Mountain Man]

Hey - I'm a dad. I know a smirk when I see one.

This reminds me of police officers who claim they can tell when someone is lying when, in fact, they're not any better at it than the average person, and in some cases are actually worse because they just "know" the suspect is guilty, so naturally, they can "tell" he's lying when he proclaims his innocence.

To be fair, I thought it was smirk at first, too, but after learning more about the incident and seeing the video, what I see now is an uncomfortable smile. Frankly, he showed far more restraint than I would have at his age.

[guacamole]

Wow. So do conservatives finally agree that we get to condemn lying liars who lie? Or am I reading this wrong?

[carpedm9587]

No - it's a FACT -- you can watch the video of the guy sitting there lying his teeth out.

I think you are making "facts" out of speculation. Yes, it's possible he was "lying." It's also possible he was engaging in fairly common self-aggrandizement and left out his usual "disclaimer." I don't know. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt until I have cause not to. You don't have to agree.

And I think this might be why you simply can't admit he's a liar.

You can think this if you wish. You are wrong. That would be a very racist attitude on my part. I try not to do that.

Naw, you can keep doing your kabuki dance.

Well, until I know what it is you want me to call him that will satisfy you - not much I can do. I can't even tell you if I agree with you.

[carpedm9587]

He FLAT OUT LIED.... multiple times... and when he didn't actually say the words, he purposely gave the impression --- his WHOLE ADULT LIFE. The man is a LIAR. His LIFE is a LIE, and he capitalizes on that with his political activism.

So perhaps you have access to information I don't have? I have seen ONE place where he called himself a Vietnam-Vet. Every other place he has called himself a Vietnam-era or Vietnam-time vet. Both are true. They may be designed to mislead - but that would require me to read this man's mind.

However, if you have multiple times" that he called himself a "Vietnam Vet," I would like to see those.

You simply can't say that because he's a Native American.

Responded to. You're wrong. But, if history is any indication - you won't believe that.

If the roles were reversed --- if it had been a WHITE MAN advancing in a menacing manner on an AMERICAN INDIAN, you'd see this completely differently.

You are speculating. I can't say what my response would be, because I haven't seen that particular dynamic. I would like to think you're wrong - but I can no more say that with certainty than you can back up your speculation.