A Question of Respect?

[Sparko]

Read the statement in its context, Sparko. The article was about the activities at the Standing Rock reservation and Phillips was talking about his role in that event. Granted, tossing in the reference to his Vietnam-era service muddied the waters, and made the rest of the sentence ambiguous. Of course, when you lift the sentence out of its context, it makes it look like his claim was about his military service.

I quoted you the context from the ACTUAL Source - Vogue.com, not your source which quotes the vogue article and is second hand.

He claimed he was a recon ranger. Which Seer says was an actual thing in Vietnam, but Phillips was never even close to that. He said that was his role. His role was a refrigeration mechanic. He lied. Why are you trying so hard to excuse this guy? He uses language like "vietnam times" or "vietnam era" when referring to his veteran status. The clear implication is that he is trying to associate himself with serving in vietnam. He never corrected anyone on the matter when they called him a vietnam vet. He called himself a recon ranger. In your snopes article it even has a video where they admit he did call himself a vietnam veteran.

[seer]

I may wear a KKK hat because I think that the white race is being unfairly treated (which it sometimes is) and I want all races to be on an equal footing. That doesn't make me less naive about what the hat symbolizes for so many and the effect it will have if I wear it.

With respect to greatness, I could get myself an orange hat that says, "Working together to Make America Great" and convey the same message. But if I wear a red hat with the classic Trump slogan, it is naive to think I will not be associated with Trump and EVERYTHING he represents - including the lying, bullying, ridicule, etc. If I knowingly wear something divisive, I shouldn't be surprised if I get a reaction.

So now you are relating a MAGA hat with the KKK. And no, it does not necessarily represent everything that Trump does or says, it could simply represent those things that we agree with. Like I do. But of course snowflakes will be triggered in any case.

[Cow Poke]

...In your snopes article it even has a video where they admit he did call himself a vietnam veteran.

This is settled science! Why are the deniers still arguing?

[rogue06]

So - I have to reverse myself on my reversal. I did some digging - and one of these CNN quotes has been shown to be a transcription error, and the other is not verified to be what he actually said. Given that both quotes happened in the same CNN interview, and the first was demonstrably a transcription error - it would seem to me fairly probable that the latter is as well. But the fact is - we don't know. So the claim that Phillips "misled" or "lied" about his service is, as best I can tell, "unproven."

If Snopes is right and it is a transcription error don't you think it is strange that virtually every news outlet out there made the same mistake -- one that Phillips made no effort to correct? And this goes back to a Native American source that did a bio piece on him back in 2008 and just now put a note on it that they had to correct the claim that he was a Vietnam veteran. The same with a GoFundMe page. The same with a group claiming to represent him. At the very least Phillips has no problem with people referring to him as a Vietnam veteran and does absolutely nothing to correct that error.

Moreover, it is incontestable that he has repeatedly lied about being a "recon ranger" when he was in fact a refrigerator mechanic. And then there are the slew of other bald-faced lies he has told ranging from it was the students who came up to him and surrounded him, that it was the students who were "in process of attacking" the BHI nut jobs, and that the students were chanting "build a wall."

[rogue06]

It is not intrinsically bad or wrong. However, the hat is closely associated with a man who advocates for some very ugly things. So if you were the hat, it seems to me reasonable that people are likely to associated you with those same ugly things. If I wear a KKK hat, I'm going to be associated with the KKK. If I wear a "Planned Parenthood" hat - I'm going to be associated with planned parenthood. If I wear a MAGA hat, and especially if I begin to exhibit behavior that align with it's prime representative - it is naive to think I am not going to be associated with that man and his rhetoric and behavior.

Yet another liberal who wants to blame the incident on the fact that some of the students were wearing MAGA hats. I'm sure he would also blame a rape victim for wearing revealing clothes.

[rogue06]

I do not see myself as a "neutral observer," nor have I ever made a claim to being "the voice of reason."

Now THAT is something we can agree on because you are anything but.

[rogue06]

https://twitter.com/kerpen/status/1088285433673515009

Nathan Phillips, January 3, 2018

"I'm a Vietnam Vet. I served in Marine Corps 72 to 76. I got discharged May 5, 1976. I got honorable discharge and one of the boxes shows peacetime or, what my box says is that I was **in theater**. I don't talk much about my Vietnam times."

So much for everybody and their brother getting it wrong and Phillips is just always misunderstood. And he's lying about getting an honorable discharge as well.

[Sparko]

If Snopes is right and it is a transcription error don't you think it is strange that virtually every news outlet out there made the same mistake -- one that Phillips made no effort to correct? And this goes back to a Native American source that did a bio piece on him back in 2008 and just now put a note on it that they had to correct the claim that he was a Vietnam veteran. The same with a GoFundMe page. The same with a group claiming to represent him. At the very least Phillips has no problem with people referring to him as a Vietnam veteran and does absolutely nothing to correct that error.

Moreover, it is incontestable that he has repeatedly lied about being a "recon ranger" when he was in fact a refrigerator mechanic. And then there are the slew of other bald-faced lies he has told ranging from it was the students who came up to him and surrounded him, that it was the students who were "in process of attacking" the BHI nut jobs, and that the students were chanting "build a wall."

For someone who takes such exception to Trump's constant lying, he seems to be trying really hard to find any way at all to excuse Phillip's lie after lie.

When I first posted here I thought Phillips was trying to prevent a conflict between the teens and the blacks. But then when I saw the videos, he was doing no such thing. He just marched into the group of teens and started banging his drum. If he was trying to diffuse a situation why wasn't he saying anything? Why just stare at a kid and beat a drum in his face? If he wanted to move on, like he also said, then why didn't he just walk around the kid? And then we see him keep changing his story, and now it comes out he has been lying about Vietnam.

[rogue06]

It's become very clear, Even via Snopes accounts that Nathan Phillips has a history of being whackadoodle. I do believe it appears that he likely provoked people who were already...provoked. He kind of reminds me of someone who sticks his fingers in boiling water, then complains when the water burns him. I do believe he would be classified as a jackass. UGH.
To those who are wondering I won't reverse my stance on Maga, and I will continue to wonder why Chaperones Absolutely did not break this up. They should have and needed to. But crazies like Phillips need to NOT be given their 15 minutes because it strongly distracts from issues such as the flaming of the Cult group that was already there.

They appear to be the ones getting a free pass in all this.

[rogue06]

Carpe was in the hospital - and then at a funeral.

[Catholicity]

They appear to be the ones getting a free pass in all this.

they really should not be given one. they started the dumpster fire in the first place.

[Mountain Man]

I quoted you the context from the ACTUAL Source - Vogue.com, not your source which quotes the vogue article and is second hand.

He claimed he was a recon ranger. Which Seer says was an actual thing in Vietnam, but Phillips was never even close to that. He said that was his role. His role was a refrigeration mechanic. He lied. Why are you trying so hard to excuse this guy? He uses language like "vietnam times" or "vietnam era" when referring to his veteran status. The clear implication is that he is trying to associate himself with serving in vietnam. He never corrected anyone on the matter when they called him a vietnam vet. He called himself a recon ranger. In your snopes article it even has a video where they admit he did call himself a vietnam veteran.

Perhaps carpe doesn't realize that telling the truth in a way that is deliberately intended to mislead is a lie.

[Cow Poke]

Perhaps carpe doesn't realize that telling the truth in a way that is deliberately intended to mislead is a lie.

Apparently, he didn't have a Mom like mine! "You KNOW what you were saying!!!"

[rogue06]

Apparently, he didn't have a Mom like mine! "You KNOW what you were saying!!!"

AMEN! My parents were none too impressed by my defense that I didn't lie and it wasn't my fault when someone leaped to the wrong conclusion when it was pretty darn clear that was exactly what I meant for them to do.

[Cow Poke]

AMEN! My parents were none too impressed by my defense that I didn't lie and it wasn't my fault when someone leaped to the wrong conclusion when it was pretty darn clear that was exactly what I meant for them to do.

Yeah, she'd double down with "We BOTH know what you were doing with that statement!" (I think she was a prosecuting attorney in another life)