Originally posted by Mountain Man
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So what is this toxic masculinity thing anyhow?
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The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI have no doubt that there is such a thing - as well as toxic conservativsm - toxic Christianity - and toxic atheism - not to mention toxic femininity. Anyone or any group can turn a good thing to a bad one. That is pretty much the definition of "toxic."Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostYou really don't get it, do you? A liberal can be a jerk. A Christian can be a jerk. A conservative, an atheist, and a feminist can be jerk. Literally anybody can be a jerk. That's not "toxic [whatever]", that's just someone being a jerk! But calling it "toxic [whatever]" implies that the bad behavior in question is exclusive or at least inherent to that group.
Saying "toxic masculinity" implies all masculinity is toxic, and only masculinity is toxic.
Likewise, saying "toxic femininity" implies all femininity is toxic, and only femininity is toxic.
Mentioning "toxic masculinity" and "toxic femininity" is a contradiction.
Referring to "toxic posting" implies all posts are toxic, including MM's, but nothing else (including both masculinity and femininity) is toxic.
Alternatively, MM is a blithering idiot.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostWhy would you not respect all people equally, why just women?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostYou really don't get it, do you?
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostA liberal can be a jerk.
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostA Christian can be a jerk.
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostA conservative, an atheist, and a feminist can be jerk.
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostLiterally anybody can be a jerk.
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostThat's not "toxic [whatever]", that's just someone being a jerk!
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostBut calling it "toxic [whatever]" implies that the bad behavior in question is exclusive or at least inherent to that group.
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostI have no doubt that you would object very strongly if that kind of thinking were applied to your boys, and you would be right to object.
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostI'll leave it as exercise in introspection for you to figure out why.
I have made the case several times, MM. You guys have not responded to it. A bully is a kind of "jerk." No one says, "get rid of the word "bully" because it just means "jerk." Bullying is a specific kind of jerk and the approach to bullying focuses specifically on bullying behavior. Lying is a specific kind of jerk. Same deal.
In the end, I think you folks hate "toxic masculinity" because it narrows down to a particular type of person: a man. You are afraid all men can be (and sometimes inappropriately are) painted by that brush. Yet many people paint "liar" with too broad a brush, and no one is suggesting eliminating the word "liar." And I have listened to many objections to "radical feminism" with not a single person objecting to it as "narrowing down to one group" or "painting with too broad a brush." Yet, interestingly, a "radical feminist" is just a jerk, right? She's just a bully, correct? We should ditch the language "radical feminism," which is pretty close to the female equivalent of "toxic male." Yet that proposal is not made by anyone here.
Now I wonder why that might be...?Last edited by carpedm9587; 02-01-2019, 06:56 AM.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
As best I can tell, you prefer a world where everyone aspires to be an alpha - and if they don't they're a wimp and need to "buck up."
This link contains salty language, but it mirrors almost exactly (it is actually to tame) my experience on Parris Island. And at just 18 years old the experience is formative. But this is how warriors and defenders are made. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRO2bkF3Iz8Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostIn the end, I think you folks hate "toxic masculinity" because it narrows down to a particular type of person: a man. You are afraid all men can be (and sometimes are) painted by that brush....
Carpe - Here's exactly what you guys think!!!!
(yeah, I know, you didn't say "here's exactly...." - you just proceeded to ascribe our inner thoughts to us.)The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by seer View Post...and managed not to embarrass Jan...The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by seer View PostNot necessarily, last night my lady friend brought me to a high end, invitation only art show where she was presenting one of her works. It was filled with sensitive artist types, and I had a few interesting conversations, and managed not to embarrass Jan (which has not always been the case). So there is a place for such men. Yet you need alpha males, even if they go over the edge at times or are not politically correct. After all who will protect the betas and women?
Originally posted by seer View PostThis link contains salty language, but it mirrors almost exactly (it is actually to tame) my experience on Parris Island. And at just 18 years old the experience is formative. But this is how warriors and defenders are made. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRO2bkF3Iz8The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostCarpe - I wish you guys would stop telling me what I think!!!!!
Carpe - Here's exactly what you guys think!!!!
(yeah, I know, you didn't say "here's exactly...." - you just proceeded to ascribe our inner thoughts to us.)The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI think you missed the "I think" part.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostNo, I covered that in the parenthetical part. Perhaps I should have added a whole bunch of verbosity.
"Is it at all possible that you folks hate "toxic masculinity" because it narrows down to a particular type of person: a man? That you are afraid all men can be (and sometimes are) painted by that brush?"
Note that the second sentence is something multiple people have explicitly said - so I am not reading their minds.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI acknowledge that the statement would have sounded less like an accusation if it had been written like this:
"Is it at all possible that you folks hate "toxic masculinity" because it narrows down to a particular type of person: a man? That you are afraid all men can be (and sometimes are) painted by that brush?"
Note that the second sentence is something multiple people have explicitly said - so I am not reading their minds.
OK.... let's cut to the quick.
You're right, Carpe. You're ALWAYS right. Why do we even bother trying to say otherwise?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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