Trump's Christian supporters are unchristian

[Mountain Man]

Of course my favorite part is when non-Christians want to mock and laugh at Christianity and then get their noses out of joint when Christians hit back.

[Cow Poke]

So, to me, supporting government tax and welfare is the logical outcome of love for others and wanting to see the poor helped, just as 2+2=4.

You are assuming here that the government system is the most efficient method for helping others. I don't believe it is, but I still pay my taxes on top of the direct assistance I provide which is, indeed, motivated by love for others.

I simply scratch my head whenever people claim to be loving of others and supportive of helping the poor and yet attack the existence of government tax and welfare.

Scratching your head is an exercise in futility that does nothing to aid the poor.

I think probably, for the most part, they are just not very well versed in history, and are ignorant of the kinds of human misery that existed prior to governments being able to provide these sorts of 'social safety nets', because I don't think any actually loving person who was actually informed about the difference between having them and not having them would actually want to not have them.

I would be much less critical of a government system that actually solved problems, rather than just perpetuating them. The "war on poverty", for example, has been just about as effective as "the war on drugs".

[Cow Poke]

Of course my favorite part is when non-Christians want to mock and laugh at Christianity and then get their noses out of joint when Christians hit back.

That's always amused me, too --- like, "WAIT!!! I'm allowed to punch below the belt because I'm a pagan, but YOU are supposed to accept that and beg for more!"

[Starlight]

You are assuming here that the government system is the most efficient method for helping others.

No, I'm assuming it's a necessary method for ensuring that help for others is geographically distributed and reaches a minimum standard. Whatever private charity exists above and beyond that minimum standard is great, but private charities by their nature are patchwork and local. Arguments over whether they are more 'efficient' are rather beside the point if they can't actually address the wider problem of poverty in anything but a token and patchwork way.

I would be much less critical of a government system that actually solved problems, rather than just perpetuating them. The "war on poverty", for example, has been just about as effective as "the war on drugs".

Rubbish, the war on poverty has kept millions out of poverty. The number of Americans in poverty is about half what it would be if the government wasn't providing the social safety net programs. Within a few years of LBJ introducing his war on poverty, the US poverty rate had been cut by more than a third.

[Cow Poke]

No, I'm assuming it's a necessary method

Which is not the same as "the logical outcome" you were claiming earlier.

[Cow Poke]

Rubbish

Horsie poo.

[JimL]

No, I, and hundreds of years of Christian tradition, have not gotten it wrong. One of the major themes repeated throughout all of scripture, from Genesis to Revelation, is God's perfection and man's imperfection and need for econciliation, "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." What you missed in the parable of the prodigal son is that the son repented and begged his father's forgiveness. He didn't earn his way back into his father's house with good works.

"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

And there you go. So stupid! There are many very good people in the world, many who don't believe in your Jesus, and to believe that a god would be so petty as to judge people according to their beliefs, is, well, absurd. It would also shatter your idea of a just and meciful god.

[One Bad Pig]

But let me guess: Western Christians have been reading this wrong for centuries until you came along to set us all straight.

It's little wonder to me that you wish to rewrite God's Word in your own image. You want a God who will judge people as "good enough", and so you twist scripture in a way that you think will allow you to "good enough" your way into heaven. It's almost like you're trying to hedge your bets just in case you're wrong.

Starlight does not speak for Eastern Christians. While he has professed admiration for this or that aspect of Eastern Christianity, he notably failed to embrace Eastern Christianity as a whole.

[One Bad Pig]

And there you go. So stupid! There are many very good people in the world, many who don't believe in your Jesus, and to believe that a god would be so petty as to judge people according to their beliefs, is, well, absurd. It would also shatter your idea of a just and meciful god.

I'll wait patiently for you to back that up with more than bald assertion, Jim.

[Mountain Man]

And there you go. So stupid! There are many very good people in the world, many who don't believe in your Jesus, and to believe that a god would be so petty as to judge people according to their beliefs, is, well, absurd. It would also shatter your idea of a just and meciful god.

http://www.net-burst.net/hot/evil.htm#suf

[JimL]

I'll wait patiently for you to back that up with more than bald assertion, Jim.

Back up what exactly?

[JimL]

http://www.net-burst.net/hot/evil.htm#suf

Your ridiculous rationalizations don't change the fact that your god supposedly judges people, not according to the content of their character, or they way in which they lived their lives, but according to whether they, by reason, believe he exists or not. Not only that, but then once they get to their dreamed of paradise, god has to change them in order to make them be good people. It's farcical!

[Mountain Man]

Your ridiculous rationalizations don't change the fact that your god supposedly judges people, not according to the content of their character, or they way in which they lived their lives, but according to whether they, by reason, believe he exists or not. Not only that, but then once they get to their dreamed of paradise, god has to change them in order to make them be good people. It's farcical!

[JimL]

I didn't say anything about "knowledge" I said that one must either believe that which they just don't believe, or into hell they go. One can't repent and ask for, or accept gods mercy if they don't believe in said god. It's just a dumb thing to believe of a god that he would punish those with imperfect knowledge because of their disbelief.

Look, I promise you this: when you come face to face with God at the end of all things, you will be judged perfectly by a judge who is incapable of error, and you will be held accountable for every wrong you've ever done -- "Whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin" -- and your own conscience will bear witness against you so that you will be left utterly without excuse. If you think that you will be able to stand before a perfect God, answer for and justify your every sin, and "good enough" your way into heaven, then ignore what I'm saying and continue to live your life as you see fit.

That's false. So long as you, in the end, believe in god, then you will not be held accountable for anything you've done in life. But, if you are the most moral of people all your life long, if you don't believe, then off to hell you go. Dumb!

[Mountain Man]

Dumb!

You're right, Jimmy, that is a dumb misrepresentation of Christian theology. The fact that you have to so blatantly distort what the Bible says in order to argue against it should be a wake-up call.