Originally posted by JimL
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Shutdown Over Border Security?
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Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostIt can be argued that what Trump offered wasn't sufficient, but what is indisputable is that Pelosi rejected the offered compromise without knowing what was in it so that excuse can not be used as a defense.
That was the moment that she took ownership of the shutdown.
That was why reliably liberal folks like Tom Brokaw announced on MSNBC that Democrats are now as much to blame as Trump for the shutdown.
That was why even the vehemently anti-Trump Washington Post was flabbergasted by her and other Democrat leaders obstinate intransigence noting in their opinion page "Make a deal. Save the dreamers" that
To refuse even to talk until the government reopens does no favors to sidelined federal workers and contractors. . . . A measure of statesmanship for a member of Congress now is the ability to accept some disappointments, and shrug off the inevitable attacks from purists, if it means rescuing the lives of thousands of deserving people living among us.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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OK - THAT was funny...The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostNo they don't.
Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostOh, I blame the Republicans too. They had the numbers and time to handle every bit of this, and they sat on their hands. Inaction is just as bad.
Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostThey HAVE a legal problem. They are here illegally. And if they served in the military, they either falsified official records or misrepresented their identity - both criminal behavior.
Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostWhat I think is fair is to let them stay here with relatives who are here legally until their 18th birthday, giving them time to make preparations in their home country, and then send them home. They can apply for citizenship just like any other prospective immigrant.
I don't find your position either helpful OR moral. Just cruel and petty.Last edited by carpedm9587; 01-23-2019, 08:43 AM.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostIt takes both sides to come to an agreement, Jim.
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostA headline in the Washington Post Express this morning: "Stop the madness: Dems must act if Trump doesn't." It goes on to pretty much toe JimL's line about how awful Trump and the Republicans are, but ends by weighing the balance of giving Trump what he wants or continuing the pain inflicted on furloughed government employees.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostEven as they come to the realization of where Pelosi et al has led them they still feel an obligatory need to blast Trump as much as possible. I think they realize that their fellow travelers on the left won't listen unless they first give a "Orange Man Bad" speech.
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And now we have 30 some Democrats, led by freshman Rep. Elaine Luria of Virginia, who sent a letter to Pelosi saying that she needs to compromise with Trump and Collin Peterson (D-Minn) telling his Democratic colleagues to approve President Trump's request for funding a wall to end an "unnecessary" government shutdown adding "Why are we fighting over this? We're going to build that wall anyway, at some time."
And the number three Democrat in the House, Steny Hoyer appears to be breaking ranks with Democrat leadership. First he's contradicting Pelosi about Trump giving the SOTU in the House of Representatives and then declaring that he thinks that "physical barriers are part of the solution" as well as poo-pooing the leftist mantra that walls are automatically "immoral" stating that "it depends on what a wall is used for whether it's moral or immoral. If it's protecting people it's moral, if it's imprisoning people it may well be immoral, but that's not issue."
I'll assume he isn't referring to walls surrounding jails which imprison those within yet protect those outside from them isn't what he meant but rather things like the Berlin Wall which kept the citizens of East Germany from leaving.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by JimL View PostOrange man is bad, Orange man constitutents, naive.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
Oh, I blame the Republicans too. They had the numbers and time to handle every bit of this, and they sat on their hands. Inaction is just as bad.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by JimL View PostBrilliant OBP, now if Trump didn't shut down the government and walk away they could have continued to bargain. Trump simply said, "okay, you're not going to give me exactly what I want, then I'm going to take hostages and cause havoc within the institutions of government by not funding them. Maybe that will bring you to your knees! There should be a law against using the government as hostage.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
sigpic
I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by JimL View PostOrange man is bad, Orange man constitutents, naive.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostIt would help if you could accurately remember and portray recent history. Jim, the government was shut down because the Democrats refused to compromise. At all.Last edited by JimL; 01-23-2019, 09:22 AM.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostNo, they didn't. They simply refused to agree to Trumps demands, ...That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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