House Democrats Don't Know What to Make of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

[Psychic Missile]

Starting to go off the rails here. While there are some employers who would fit this description, it is not how most employers work. They don't purposefully make a job "bad" - they just advertise for someone to do the work they need done. The city wastewater department needs someone to clean out the sewers so we can have healthy cities and water. Someone has to do that job. They advertise for people to do it, people apply and get the job. It might be a horrible job and the pay might suck. But people apply and do it. Did the city go, "Hey let's make some bad jobs to keep poor people poor and make them miserable!" -- no they did not. And if they don't pay well enough, nobody will do the job. So it is a balance, they have to offer enough money to get the job done, or it won't get done. It is entirely up to the people who do the work at what pay level they will do the work.

I gave you a whole paragraph of ways a job can become a bad job, and each of those examples are specifically decided upon by the employer: pay, benefits, hours, environment, etc. I am not talking about general job requirements. You need to get it out of your mind that I consider jobs bad because they are labor-intensive or deal with unfavorable materials. That has never been my position. Dealing with wastewater, for example, does not make a job bad on its own. If the employer doesn't provide a way for the worker to minimize health hazards, like with protective equipment, then the job becomes bad. The employer in that case would be making a conscious decision that risks their employees' health.

There was no ambiguity in her words. She was very clear. You are imagining some ambiguity for her so that you can excuse the stupid things she said.

Now you're not listening to the things I say in good faith.

[Cow Poke]

1) People purposely decide how much an employee is paid, what their work environment is like, etc. They may not realize they are making a bad job, but that doesn't change the fact that they decided on the causes of a job being bad.
B) What does recruitment/training have to do with what I've said?
3) To recruit/train people?

Been a long day - I'll get back to you.

[Sparko]

1) People purposely decide how much an employee is paid, what their work environment is like, etc. They may not realize they are making a bad job, but that doesn't change the fact that they decided on the causes of a job being bad.
B) What does recruitment/training have to do with what I've said?
3) To recruit/train people?

Have you ever HAD a job? If so, what were/are they?

You surely never ran a company. You seem utterly clueless how the job market works.

[Sparko]

I gave you a whole paragraph of ways a job can become a bad job, and each of those examples are specifically decided upon by the employer: pay, benefits, hours, environment, etc. I am not talking about general job requirements. You need to get it out of your mind that I consider jobs bad because they are labor-intensive or deal with unfavorable materials. That has never been my position. Dealing with wastewater, for example, does not make a job bad on its own. If the employer doesn't provide a way for the worker to minimize health hazards, like with protective equipment, then the job becomes bad. The employer in that case would be making a conscious decision that risks their employees' health.



Now you're not listening to the things I say in good faith.

Yeah, I get what you are saying. You seem to think employers are all evil rich people who sit around and decide how to create the worst jobs they can just to torture people. You seem to think they are Mr. Burns from the Simpsons.

Your view of employers and the job market is completely skewed and unrealistic. Generally in order to succeed a company has to entice people to work for them and do the jobs needed to create the products. If they mistreat the workers, they can leave and go to a competitor who treats them better. And like CP said, they usually have to invest a lot of time and training to get workers up to speed and productive. They don't want to waste that time and money by having to redo it every few weeks. So there is pressure to treat the employees as well as possible to retain them and get good work out of them so you can make your product and sell it.

Now if you only had one employer, say like in a socialist state where the government is the employer, then there is no competition. And no incentive to treat your employees well. Go research how employees are treated in Chinese factories. http://www.facing-finance.org/en/dat...ries-in-china/

[Cow Poke]

1) People purposely decide how much an employee is paid, what their work environment is like, etc. They may not realize they are making a bad job, but that doesn't change the fact that they decided on the causes of a job being bad.

PM, I think you have an incredibly sinister view of small business. Labor is one of the very few controllable costs in doing business. It comes directly out of the profit potential. And employer can't "decide" how much is rent will be for the month, or how much electricity will cost, or insurance, or franchise fees, or a whole bunch of other factors.

And he/she, in most cases, has to work with the employees. With full employment, such as we have today, it's harder to attract help, so the employer has to pay at least as good as or better than his competitors. He/she doesn't just wake up one day and say "I'm gonna be a bad boss so I'll pay my employees less than the competition pays".

This notion that an employer "decides" to make the job a "bad job" is just nutty. The employer knows he/she won't be in business long at all if he/she does that.

B) What does recruitment/training have to do with what I've said?

It is a major cost of doing business. To hire and train an employee costs both time and money. It's an INVESTMENT. The employee is not really "making money" for the employer until the employee is trained. Therefore, it's just nutty to "make that job a bad job" so you will lose that employee, then have to start all over and hire and train another.

3) To recruit/train people?

It becomes more difficult to recruit and train people when the unemployment rate is very low, because the available workforce is much smaller. There are fewer people looking for a job "just to get by", while they look for the job they really want.

And here's a HUGE thing you anti-employer types (that's certainly the impression you're giving) can't seem to understand: These lower paying jobs are not INTENDED to be career positions. They are fully intended to utilize your labor while you are gaining some experience, and they fully expect that a number of people will use that job to advance their career path.

At the very lower end of the spectrum, you can work at McDonald's flipping burgers or baptizing french fries, and after having some experience in the fast food industry, move to a Chick-Fil-A where the working conditions and benefits and pay are MUCH better, but they require some "experience". From there, they sky is the limit. You can actually buy your own franchise, or partner with somebody who is.

Any manager or business owner who has "bad jobs" will not be attracting the kinds of workers he/she needs to stay in business.

[Cow Poke]

http://www.facing-finance.org/en/database/cases/working-conditions-in-foxconn-factories-in-china/[/url]

...or around the world.

apple.jpgnike.pngamazon.png

[Littlejoe]

PM, I think you have an incredibly sinister view of small business. Labor is one of the very few controllable costs in doing business. It comes directly out of the profit potential. And employer can't "decide" how much is rent will be for the month, or how much electricity will cost, or insurance, or franchise fees, or a whole bunch of other factors.

And he/she, in most cases, has to work with the employees. With full employment, such as we have today, it's harder to attract help, so the employer has to pay at least as good as or better than his competitors. He/she doesn't just wake up one day and say "I'm gonna be a bad boss so I'll pay my employees less than the competition pays".

This notion that an employer "decides" to make the job a "bad job" is just nutty. The employer knows he/she won't be in business long at all if he/she does that.



It is a major cost of doing business. To hire and train an employee costs both time and money. It's an INVESTMENT. The employee is not really "making money" for the employer until the employee is trained. Therefore, it's just nutty to "make that job a bad job" so you will lose that employee, then have to start all over and hire and train another.



It becomes more difficult to recruit and train people when the unemployment rate is very low, because the available workforce is much smaller. There are fewer people looking for a job "just to get by", while they look for the job they really want.

And here's a HUGE thing you anti-employer types (that's certainly the impression you're giving) can't seem to understand: These lower paying jobs are not INTENDED to be career positions. They are fully intended to utilize your labor while you are gaining some experience, and they fully expect that a number of people will use that job to advance their career path.

At the very lower end of the spectrum, you can work at McDonald's flipping burgers or baptizing french fries, and after having some experience in the fast food industry, move to a Chick-Fil-A where the working conditions and benefits and pay are MUCH better, but they require some "experience". From there, they sky is the limit. You can actually buy your own franchise, or partner with somebody who is.

Any manager or business owner who has "bad jobs" will not be attracting the kinds of workers he/she needs to stay in business.

Actually, I have a nephew who started at McDonald's working the late night shift, then they moved him to line supervisor, then moved him to day's as a Supervisor and now they are sending him to Management training to be an Assistant Manager. It's not great money but $16 - $17 / hour while in Training isn't bad for a young(ish) person starting out. (He's in his mid 20's)

[Sparko]

Actually, I have a nephew who started at McDonald's working the late night shift, then they moved him to line supervisor, then moved him to day's as a Supervisor and now they are sending him to Management training to be an Assistant Manager. It's not great money but $16 - $17 / hour while in Training isn't bad for a young(ish) person starting out. (He's in his mid 20's)

nice.

The daughter of a friend of mine started working at Wendy's, moved up to shift supervisor, then assistant manager, then used her experience to get a job working at Brinks supervising Armored Car drivers. Making good money now and loves her job.

[lilpixieofterror]

If you're talking about jobs relating to sewage/garbage/etc, that's what OSHA is theoretically for. There's a way for "dirty jobs" to be done safely.

They are still rather dirty with not great working conditions.

Bingo!

Maybe it's the only job where they meet the requirements. Maybe other jobs they qualify for aren't much different. Maybe they saw the job for what it really was when it was too late. There are plenty of reasons for people to be working bad jobs.

[Cow Poke]

Actually, I have a nephew who started at McDonald's working the late night shift, then they moved him to line supervisor, then moved him to day's as a Supervisor and now they are sending him to Management training to be an Assistant Manager. It's not great money but $16 - $17 / hour while in Training isn't bad for a young(ish) person starting out. (He's in his mid 20's)

My wife has an aunt who just passed, but was quite wealthy because she started out baptizing french fries at McDondald's, went up the chain, then bought her own franchise. That wasn't enough for her, so she bought two more!!!

[Littlejoe]

My wife has an aunt who just passed, but was quite wealthy because she started out baptizing french fries at McDondald's, went up the chain, then bought her own franchise. That wasn't enough for her, so she bought two more!!!

There's opportunity everywhere it seems...the Managers usually make pretty decent money from what I've been told...

[Cow Poke]

There's opportunity everywhere it seems...the Managers usually make pretty decent money from what I've been told...

I have a friend who got off the bus in Houston, and went to the McDondald's in the bus station for breakfast. His breakfast was a sloppy mess, so he asked for the manager and told him "I can make a better breakfast than this!"

The guy hired him on the spot, and 15 years later, the guy has* his own franchise in NW Houston.




*haven't seen him in ages, so I don't know if he still has that franchise - he'd be about 75 or 80 now.

[Mountain Man]

Some of the best jobs in the US are widely perceived as the worst. For instance, school janitors and cafeteria workers. They pay a lot better than most people realize, and the ones we mocked as kids went on to enjoy a very comfortable retirement.

[rogue06]

There's opportunity everywhere it seems...the Managers usually make pretty decent money from what I've been told...

Lotta hard work running a fast food restaurant but the pay is pretty good. My sister-in-law has done it and ended up getting moved up into the corporate office.

[rogue06]

Please tell me this is a joke

Source: ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ MISQUOTES THE CONSTITUTION

Ocasio-Cortez then claimed that the Constitution only places a presidential age limit on men

No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.

Source

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