First Gun Confiscation Killing...

[Littlejoe]

We don't get to choose if we are shot to death by a mad man or not. Apples and oranges.

You certainly may have a choice if you are armed yourself.

[lilpixieofterror]

We don't get to choose if we are shot to death by a mad man or not. Apples and oranges.

[Roy]

First of all, I would like you to back up that assertion that "Most of us get the Flu". I don't think that's true. According to WebMD the odds of getting the Flu are 5% - 20%.

5%-20% each year. That works out to 95%-100% over a person's lifetime. So yes, most of you get flu.

[Littlejoe]

5%-20% each year. That works out to 95%-100% over a person's lifetime. So yes, most of you get flu.

I don't think the odds of probability work that way...

[oxmixmudd]

First of all, I would like you to back up that assertion that "Most of us get the Flu". I don't think that's true. According to WebMD the odds of getting the Flu are 5% - 20%.

Second of all, the CDC disagree's with you. Did you check the link? If 12,000 to 56,000 people die from Flu and Flu related illnesses, then you are much more likely to die (by a huge magnitude) from the Flu than a mass shooting.

Until I started getting flu shots. I got the flu almost every year it was going around. One of the reasons I get it. I'm still here. The Flu is unpleasant, but for most of us never comes close to being lethal.

Yes, I am much more likely to die from the Flu than a mass shooting. Or Ebola. Or lightening. The lethality of a disease is not defined by the probability of getting it. It is defined by the probability of dying IF it get it. We act to contain a lethal disease when it appears. We act more aggressively if it shows a signs it is growing or spreading. Mass shootings are increasing. gun violence in general is very high in this country compared to most civilized nations. The difference? Most civilized nations have stricter gun laws.

However, all that said, I don't like your disease analogy for several reasons. So I'm not going to continue a form of conversation about it that assumes the comparison is somehow equivalent. First and foremost , disease is not a sentient act by a malevolent being. It gets very cold blooded to try to compare the shock, carnage and heartless mayhem of a shooting like happened in Las Vegas to a disease. Diseases do not have mind, soul. They are not 'evil' or 'malevolent'.

Jim

[oxmixmudd]

I don't think the odds of probability work that way...

Do you suppose Roy tossed 95 to 100% out off the top of his head?

Jim

[Littlejoe]

Do you suppose Roy tossed 95 to 100% out off the top of his head?

Jim

Yes, I do think that. You get the flu every year without a flu shot...I've never had the flu. Assuming the first number leads to the second is not in line with the laws of probability. BTW, my wife got a flu shot last year and still got the flu...meanwhile, I never get a flu shot and still didn't get it. If a coin is flipped 100 times and it comes up heads 100 times, what are the odds it will come up heads on the 101st try? Answer is 50%.

[oxmixmudd]

Comparing the situation to a driver in a car is much better than to a disease. The car is operated by a person who can have intent, evil, or malice.

However, a car's sole purpose is not to be a lethal weapon. Even so, because in irresponsible hands cars can be dangerous and even lethal, we license drivers. We arrest them if they are using their car irresponsibly. We test their driving capabilities regularly, and we take their licenses away if they show they can't be trusted with it.

Jim

[JimL]

You certainly may have a choice if you are armed yourself.

No, having a gun on you doesn't necessarily give you a choice. If some mad man walks up to you and blows your head off it isn't going to matter one wit if you are carrying.

[Littlejoe]

No, having a gun on you doesn't necessarily give you a choice. If some mad man walks up to you and blows your head off it isn't going to matter one wit if you are carrying.

Same is true of the guy in line behind you sneezing his head off in your direction...at least I have a chance against someone with a gun. Especially in a crowd where I'm less likely to be the first one shot at.

[Roy]

Whether mass shootings are becoming more common isn't the topic of this thread either but here we are...

My point, that you want to hand wave away, ...

I'm not hand-waving it away, I'm saying it's irrelevant. You aren't even asking whether flu is becoming more common.

again is that, death by Flu is much more common than death by mass shooting...yet you have no fear of the Flu? Do not want to impose mandatory flu shots, but you DO want mandatory gun regulation. You aren't being consistent IMHO.

The two situations are not comparable. Choosing to have a flu jab yourself reduces the chance of catching flu from some-one else. Does choosing not to buy a gun yourself reduce the chance of being shot by some-one else?

[Roy]

I don't think the odds of probability work that way...

They do.

Do you suppose Roy tossed 95 to 100% out off the top of his head?

Yes, I do think that.

Oops.

[Littlejoe]

They do.

No they don't, just like the coin flip example.

[JimL]

Nobody is claiming that we can completely protect ourselves from everything, but we can take measures that reduce the chances of becoming a victim. For the Flu we have the option of shielding ourselves, for drunk drivers we take away their licence to drive, fine or imprison them, and for being shot to death by mad men with guns we need to toughen the gun laws. Simple as that!

[Littlejoe]

I'm not hand-waving it away, I'm saying it's irrelevant. You aren't even asking whether flu is becoming more common.The two situations are not comparable. Choosing to have a flu jab yourself reduces the chance of catching flu from some-one else. Does choosing not to buy a gun yourself reduce the chance of being shot by some-one else?

You seem to be deliberately ignoring my point to change the argument to one I'm not making...that's burning a straw man fallacy. Is flu becoming more common, I'd argue yes it is because of globalization. I asked if it should be mandatory to get flu shots, not get one voluntarily like we do now. That's a direct correlation to regulating someone's ability to guy a gun.