Is Nationalism A Dirty Word...

[NorrinRadd]

What is the time limit on editing our own posts?

I wanted to add that I notice Olson's definition of "nationalism," particularly his distinguishing it from "patriotism," seems idiosyncratic.

[Cow Poke]

What is the time limit on editing our own posts?

Not long enough.

I wanted to add that I notice Olson's definition of "nationalism," particularly his distinguishing it from "patriotism," seems idiosyncratic.

[seer]

I agree with Roger Olson that nationalism is incompatible with Christianity.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/rogere...d-nationalism/

I don't think protectionism is morally justifiable, either. An American is no more entitled to make a living than anybody else in the world.

(It's probably not a surprise that my online chess username is "Mennonite")

This is nonsense, sure the rest of the world is entitled to make a living, but not off our backs. Putting our citizens out of work by flooding our markets with cheap goods made by those making slave wages. And illegals have no right to come into this country and take our jobs. I said this in the past, my son had a number of friends who worked construction (mostly commercial roofing) - they made a good living. Not any more, they all were replaced by illegals who would work for less than minimum wage. No they have no moral or legal right to our economy.

[KingsGambit]

What is the time limit on editing our own posts?

I wanted to add that I notice Olson's definition of "nationalism," particularly his distinguishing it from "patriotism," seems idiosyncratic.

I fully agree.

[Sparko]

I agree with Roger Olson that nationalism is incompatible with Christianity.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/rogere...d-nationalism/

I don't think protectionism is morally justifiable, either. An American is no more entitled to make a living than anybody else in the world.

(It's probably not a surprise that my online chess username is "Mennonite")

sounds to me like he just redefined patriotism and nationalism into his own categories and then picked one as good and one as bad.

[JimL]

That was between 30-40 years ago when I was a treasurer in the Teamsters. I grew up in a solidly Democrat home and town (Kennedy and FDR were saints). Except for Nixon I did not vote Republican until 1994, much to the horror of my father (I was in the Marine corps when I voted for Nixon, he gave us a pay raise).

So, 30 or 40 years ago, when unions benefitted you as an emplyee, you were all for them, even served your union administratively if I recall, but now that it no longer benefits you personally, they are evil liberal/pinko commie organizations. Typical republican!

[seer]

So, 30 or 40 years ago, when unions benefitted you as an emplyee, you were all for them, even served your union administratively if I recall, but now that it no longer benefits you personally, they are evil liberal/pinko commie organizations. Typical republican!

Well they can be communist, and have been in the past. But I have no problem with unions for private companies. But I do have a problem with public sector unions, they are bankrupting my state.

[guacamole]

As an arm-chair philosopher, I think nationalism is dangerous, given that it often produces human rights violations. In general, I think most taxonomies that try to define a "best group" and "others," will find their natural inclination is toward bigotry and brutishness. Partially, because it lacks the requisite humility that safe guards human action, and thus, simpletons convinced of their own supremacy will use that as a club to flog others; and partially, because nationalism proposes a morality that isn't rooted in reason, but is instead relativistic.

As a Christian, I think nationalism leads to apostasy. The New Testament gives us room for one true allegiance. To me, the nonsense surrounding the veneration of the flag and nationalistic patriotism bears unfortunate parallels to the Imperial Cult in the Roman Empire. No thank you.

Finally, as a human who appreciates the wideness and wildness of human culture and God's creation, I would find living in a highly nationalistic culture, one where conformity to the group mean is enforced by society or the state, to be stultifyingly oppressive to human experience and creativity.

These are not in the order of importance.

fwiw,
guacamole

[JimL]

Well they can be communist, and have been in the past.

You were a communist in the past?

But I have no problem with unions for private companies. But I do have a problem with public sector unions, they are bankrupting my state.

So you think it's okay for you to collectively bargain for fair wages, but not teachers?

[seer]

You were a communist in the past?

I said they can be Jim, not that they all were.

So you think it's okay for you to collectively bargain for fair wages, but not teachers?

You got it. BTW FDR had the same view for public sector workers. When public sector workers bargain, who is their adversary? Yes, us the tax payers.

[guacamole]

When public sector workers bargain, who is their adversary? Yes, us the tax payers.

Or management. Or politicians.

[seer]

Or management. Or politicians.

No, because we are paying the pills, the money comes out of our pockets... We are paying for the management and politicians too...

[guacamole]

No, because we are paying the pills, the money comes out of our pockets... We are paying for the management and politicians too...

Unfortunately, the taxpayer gets stuck between the rage of labor and the dishonesty of management and politicians. There's more at stake than mere dollars in collective bargaining--like standards of care, students per class, mandatory overtime vs. time-off, etc. I get that people are concerned about their pocket books, but there are a few more complexities to the issue.

[seer]

Unfortunately, the taxpayer gets stuck between the rage of labor and the dishonesty of management and politicians. There's more at stake than mere dollars in collective bargaining--like standards of care, students per class, mandatory overtime vs. time-off, etc. I get that people are concerned about their pocket books, but there are a few more complexities to the issue.

Except in the end it all falls on us. Like I said, public sector workers are bankrupting my state. Even after the two largest tax hikes in our history.