I Wish The Elephants Had Trampled...

[Tassman]

I could also add I Enoch, Origen, Tertullian, Cyprian, Jerome, the Apostolic Constitutions , the Synod of Elvira, the Synod Ancyra, and 3rd ecumenical council (Chalcedon) if you wish. The point being that we have a consistent record of thought spanning well over three centuries showing opposition to abortion.

Abortion has never been a major issue in Judaism. The New Testament does not comment on abortion. So Christians against abortion must consider the writings of later generations in order to find teachings from outside the bible to make an argument. While some Christians have been against abortion, many have not...including Evangelicals until relatively recently.

[Leonhard]

Abortion has never been a major issue in Judaism. The New Testament does not comment on abortion. So Christians against abortion must consider the writings of later generations in order to find teachings from outside the bible to make an argument. While some Christians have been against abortion, many have not...including Evangelicals until relatively recently.

The Catholic Church has taken a stance from which it won't budge. A stance its maintained for the past two millenia, as far back as we have any church documents to attest on it. The Eastern Orthodox, following the Church Fathers maintain the same stance.

The rest of your objections are useless.

[JimL]

The Catholic Church has taken a stance from which it won't budge. A stance its maintained for the past two millenia, as far back as we have any church documents to attest on it. The Eastern Orthodox, following the Church Fathers maintain the same stance.

Upon what authority has the Catholic church taken this stance? The Catholic church is based on scripture, if they are making stuff up as they go, then why should anyone care about their stance on truth. Particularly, why should secular society concern itself with what the Catholic, or any other church, believes.

[seer]

Particularly, why should secular society concern itself with what the Catholic, or any other church, believes.

Which secular society is that, the one where the majority is religious, where our very rights are ground in God...

[mossrose]

Upon what authority has the Catholic church taken this stance? The Catholic church is based on scripture, if they are making stuff up as they go, then why should anyone care about their stance on truth. Particularly, why should secular society concern itself with what the Catholic, or any other church, believes.

Maybe Catholic tradition? You know, like Jewish tradition, which seems to be a fall back reason for Tassy. Isn't that good enough got you?

And secular culture doesn't care, as is proved over and over again.

Still doesn't make the culture right.

[mossrose]

You Evangelicals have so much judgemental hatred. Why would a 'loving deity' condemn a "silly little boy" (as you nastily claim JimL to be), to eternal damnation.

Oh, yes, it's fine for Jim to call me names, yet when I return the favour you tell me I'm nasty. Hypocrite.

Once again we have the old "loving God" non-argument. You so misunderstand the nature of God. He is a loving God. That's why he provided salvation through Jesus Christ. But He is also a just God, and if you haven't accepted the salvation provided, then you will face that judgement.

I shouldn't have to keep telling you about that. Surely you are smart enough to read it once and understand it.

[JimL]

Which secular society is that, the one where the majority is religious, where our very rights are ground in God...

No, the one in which there is a separation of church and state. Besides, the majority is in no way religious. Most people are born into a religious family and so are religious in name only and could really care less. Why do you think so many so called religious people disagree with the teachings of the church?

[JimL]

Maybe Catholic tradition? You know, like Jewish tradition, which seems to be a fall back reason for Tassy. Isn't that good enough got you?

Tass is using judaism to explain to you that catholic tradition is made up, that it doesn't originate in the religion out of which the Christian cult emerged.

And secular culture doesn't care, as is proved over and over again.

Secular society is not bound by religious beliefs, nor should it be.

Still doesn't make the culture right.

No, it doesn't make it right or wrong, it makes it the decision made which you are free to disagree with or not.

[JimL]

Oh, yes, it's fine for Jim to call me names, yet when I return the favour you tell me I'm nasty. Hypocrite.

But aren't you suppose to turn the other cheek there, mossy? So who is being the hypocrite here?

Once again we have the old "loving God" non-argument. You so misunderstand the nature of God. He is a loving God. That's why he provided salvation through Jesus Christ. But He is also a just God, and if you haven't accepted the salvation provided, then you will face that judgement.

I shouldn't have to keep telling you about that. Surely you are smart enough to read it once and understand it.

We understand the ideas/beliefs deeply impressed upon your grey matter there mossy, we just don't agree with them.

[Sparko]

and rinse, repeat.

Tassy, your biased source is wrong. We have shown that to you over and over. but you don't care. you just repeat yourself again. who are you trying to convince? Do you think we forget or something? you moron.

[mossrose]

No, it doesn't make it right or wrong, it makes it the decision made which you are free to disagree with or not.

Well, that's a big joke.

If that were true, then I wouldn't be forced to bake a wedding cake for a homosexual wedding, would I?

[mossrose]

But aren't you suppose to turn the other cheek there, mossy? So who is being the hypocrite here?

I find it highly amusing that you and your ilk like to pick and choose scripture when it suits you, yet you don't believe in it.

We understand the ideas/beliefs deeply impressed upon your grey matter there mossy, we just don't agree with them.

Which in no way changes the truth of what we believe.

[JimL]

I find it highly amusing that you and your ilk like to pick and choose scripture when it suits you, yet you don't believe in it.

Hmmm, just pointing out your hypocrisy mossy. It's your bible, your belief, not mine.

Which in no way changes the truth of what we believe.

Duh! That you believe something doesn't make it true either.

[JimL]

Well, that's a big joke.

If that were true, then I wouldn't be forced to bake a wedding cake for a homosexual wedding, would I?

It's not a matter of being right or wrong in an absolute sense, it's the non-discrimination law which you agree to when going into public business.

[seer]

No, the one in which there is a separation of church and state. Besides, the majority is in no way religious. Most people are born into a religious family and so are religious in name only and could really care less. Why do you think so many so called religious people disagree with the teachings of the church?

Jim there is no such thing as separation of church and state in the Constitution. The Founders merely that not want a National Church. We actually had a number of state churches, supported by tax monies. And again our very rights are grounded in a religious principle, grounded in God. Not in human institutions. That is not very secular...