DeSantis Uses Racist Dog Whistle...

[lilpixieofterror]

They are not a major economic powers, dufus. The largest economy is of course the U.S. at 20.4 triillion, second is China at 14 trillion, Russia isn't even in the top 10 at 1.5 trillion.

Funny how quick you are to hand wave away what the Russians did in order to help elect your prefered treasonous crook as president.

Tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theories, based on no evidence, deserves to be dismissed.

The electoral college is outdated and favors republicans who tend to have majority constituencies in sparsley populated states and whose vote therefore is worth twice that of votes coming from larger more liberal states like California. Fact remains, Trump barely eked it out with the help of the Russians and rubes like you who were easily conned into supporting him and is now the most unpopular President in the history of the Presidency. Nice job!

That just goes to show that you have no idea what you are talking about, although that's nothing that I didn't already know. Obama did try to do something about it, he shared the U.S. intel with Congress prior to the election and Mitch McConnell refused to acknowledge it, said he would accuse the President of using it to try and effect the election. Obama should have gone ahead and released the intel anyway, but he didn't think that Putin could actually get his puppet elected and he was afraid, a la Mitch McConnell, of dividing the country. You were conned, Trump is the most unpopular President in U.S. history and if we are lucky enough of the naive Trump supporters eyes will be opened and they will realize what a terrible thing they did. I don't hold out much hope in your case though!

[Mountain Man]

See, I got another theory, they were so sure Hillary was going to win they figured Russia’s small operation had almost no effect. When she lost, they decided to cook up this Russian conspiracy theory to undermine his presidency. Sorry Jimmy, but that makes more sense than your conspiracy theories.

Oh, come on, that theory only makes sense because it's supported by the evidence! Jimmy's way too smart to fall for that!

[oxmixmudd]

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I personally don't believe a person can use those terms without hosting racist sentiment. Sometimes a person can host a certain kind of resentment against blacks without ever using those terms, or Jewish people or whatever. But once a person actually voices those terms, it's gone way past just some sort of low level resentment. So since it's pretty clear he does voice those sorts or terms, at least sometimes, he's on his way if not already there.




Jim

Back on the subject of the DeSantis use of the term Monkey in "Monkey it up". So there is this Pennsylvania GOP, Carla Moloney, who managed to say this on what appears to have been a private post made public by some sort of family dispute:

Source: Carla Maloney

Steelers are now just as bad as the rest of the over paid (sic) baboons. You respect your flag, country and our national anthem ... Let's see how the baboons get paid when white people stop paying their salaries."

© Copyright Original Source

This is not DeSantis of course. But it does illustrate how the use of this sort of racist remark is shall we say common and clearly used as a racist slur and not in the distant past and not by a person that openly carries herself as a racist person. I mean she immediately resigned, she was embarrassed by it. It think her reaction indicates she is less likely to be truly racist than what the DeSantis reaction says about him. And yet there it is, it's still in her, it still was expressed, and it still means that is how she thinks at the basest level about black people as a group.

So you might think people are over-reacting. But this is what lies under the covers all over this country. And so I don't think it's an over-reaction at all. I don't know how many times I've found people I assumed where not racist spill some line like this either when they thought they wouldn't be heard or when the just assumed my white skin would mean I'd see it that way too.

These sorts of attitudes need to be gone. And gone at the lowest level. But they aren't, and with Trump in office not only are they not diminishing, they have been given a new boldness, a new place to grow and to prosper.


Jim

[lilpixieofterror]

He hemmed and hawed and only eventually after a huge amount of pressure actually rejected his endorsement. It took him 4 days. Only after enough time and resistance that Mr. Duke and those that follow him could see that Trump had NO CHOICE but to reject the endorsement. This is not the reaction of a person that sees racism as a problem. It is the expected reaction of a racist that covets the votes of racists.

According to the absolute master of truth, what is the right amount of time? Give me your objective measurement please.

The really odd thing about that is that Trump in 2000 disavowed David Duke, knew full well who he was then. So given that, one could make the case this was opportunistic as opposed to ideological, he didn't want to offend people he knew would be voting for him.

That is just as bad as full on racism though as far as I'm concerned.

Note the opinion being pushed forward as a fact.

Either way it pans out, Trump ends up acting as a racist would.

Opinion, not fact.

No - that is not the problem here. Equating both sides, saying there are 'decent people' in the crowds shouting anti-semitic and anti-black epithets is what is wrong.

Not everyone on the other side was a racist. Some were simply free speech advocates. Typical TDS though, everyone that disagrees is a racist.

Remember this little thing called the American Revolution? That was a revolt that broke the governing law as a push back against British over-taxation and oppression.

So you’re being oppressed now? Hummm, I remember the American patriots not hiding behind mask, but signing a document and sending it to the king. Are you saying that people angry that Queen Hillary wasn’t elected are the same as those that openly declared independence? Hummm interesting, your delusion is really powerful.

Even though the anti-white supremacists protestors were violent, they are pushing back against evil, against racism and the ongoing oppression of black people. The white supremacists ARE the oppressors. They are the ones that want to continue any means they can to encourage and grow racism and hostile racial actions in this country.

Interesting because in reality land it’s been the reverse. White supremacy are laughed at and generally ignored. Besides, whose been the one killing cops and attacking random white people on the streets again?

Trump gave place to the oppressors, and equated their violence with the violence of those pushing back against oppression. That is what a racist would do.

And yet what group has been murdering cops again? What group has beaten random white people up? What group has threaten public speakers and rioted to prevent them from speaking? Oh yeah, your terrorist buddies have done and continue to do this stuff. Thanks for supporting the murder of cops, riots, destruction of property, and stomping on the rights of others. Reality sure sucks vs fanasty land, huh?

Two things here.

(1) He tends towards remarks that are historically racist when he targets black people.
(2) It is impossible to be racist against a person of your own race.

What you and others here fail to understand is that racist terms are only racist in a certain context. Putting a derogatory caricature of Donald Trump on a wall next to a bunch of money is not anti-Semitic. But doing the same thing using Jared Kushner would be. Because one classic anti-Semitic stereotype of Jewish people is that they are hoarders of money. Putting up a bunch pictures of George Bush made to look like a monkey is NOT racist. But putting up a bunch of pictures of Obama looking like a monkey IS racist.

More opinion pretending to be fact.

The target of the statement matters. Trump's continued slams of black people using historically racists terms IS racist.

Reality land, Trump uses the same language towards both races. Reality land, only those obsessed with racism would take it as racist. Again, opinion pretends to be fact.

No - a person can't be racist against his own race. In that case they are just being rude, mean, whatever.

It’s so weird how race baiters work. Calling a white guy a monkey=not racist. Calling a black guy a monkey=racist. Why? Well, because reasons or something.

Facts - get a life pix. I'm referencing real events and what they represent based on historical uses of certain terms. Those ARE the facts.

So what? Times change Jim and acting as though things that were racist 100 years ago are today is as stupid as pretending words 100 years ago have the same meaning today. Monkey doesn’t have the same meaning today Jim that it had before Jim.

Trump has acted as a racist. The are strong indicators he holds racist views. John R O'Donnal has said flat out he's seen it for real. We know Sanders said she couldn't guarantee he's never used certain racist terms.

Jim, I’ve heard racist terms from people I know are not racist directed at a black guy that happened to be their friend and I’ve heard the reverse too. Again, context matters.

I personally don't believe a person can use those terms without hosting racist sentiment. Sometimes a person can host a certain kind of resentment against blacks without ever using those terms, or Jewish people or whatever. But once a person actually voices those terms, it's gone way past just some sort of low level resentment. So since it's pretty clear he does voice those sorts or terms, at least sometimes, he's on his way if not already there.

Another opinion because I’ve seen it for myself and think it’s true. I personally don’t, but people are complex and the context of a conversation does matter.

[lilpixieofterror]

Back on the subject of the DeSantis use of the term Monkey in "Monkey it up". So there is this Pennsylvania GOP, Carla Moloney, who managed to say this on what appears to have been a private post made public by some sort of family dispute:

"Steelers are now just as bad as the rest of the over paid (sic) baboons. You respect your flag, country and our national anthem ... Let's see how the baboons get paid when white people stop paying their salaries."

This is not DeSantis of course. But it does illustrate how the use of this sort of racist remark is shall we say common and clearly used a racist slur and not in the distant past and not by a person that openly carries herself as a racist person.

So you might think people are over-reacting. But this is what lies under the covers all over this country. And so I don't think it's an over-reaction at all. I don't know how many times I've found people I assumed where not racist spill some line like this either when they thought they wouldn't be heard or when the just assumed my white skin would mean I'd see it that way too.

These sorts of attitudes need to be gone. And the lowest level. But they aren't, and with Trump in office they have been given new boldness, a new place to grow and to prosper.


Jim

[oxmixmudd]

IF you are white it simply isn't racist no matter how you meant it. If it was a term of endearment (which is somehow exactly how Monkey is often used parent to child) it certainly wasn't racist.

You are being purposely obtuse pix. You know it and I know it. When the term is used in a racist context(derogatory, white person to black person), it's racist*. As DeSantis used it, it was a racist slur. It may have been a clumsy accident, but then he could just apologize. But there is nothing reaching about this. Nothing obscure, as I just referenced in my post about Carla Maloney.

And if he were not at least to some degree comfortable with expressing such an slur, he would be horrified and would have immediately apologized. And that's where it really meets the road here. He is comfortable letting it stand. And that has Racist written all over it.

Jim

* I already posted links to the history of the term to explain WHY that is so. The FACT simply is that white people viewed blacks as 'less evolved' per Darwin's theory, closer to Monkeys or 'lower primates'. This is why the term is a Racist slur white to black. That is just the simple fact of the matter.

[lilpixieofterror]

IF you are white it simply isn't racist no matter how you meant it. If it was a term of endearment (which is somehow exactly how Monkey is often used parent to child) it certainly wasn't racist.

You are being purposely obtuse pix. You know it and I know it. When the term is used in a racist context, it's racist. As DeSantis used it, it was a racist slur. It may have been a clumsy accident, but then he could just apologize. But there is nothing reaching about this. Nothing obscure, as I just referenced in my post about Carla Maloney.

And if he were not at least to some degree comfortable with expressing such an slur, he would be horrified and would have immediately apologized. And that's where it really meets the road here. He is comfortable letting it stand. And that has Racist written all over it.

Jim

[Mountain Man]

When the term is used in a racist context, it's racist.

And DeSantis didn't use it in a racist context. Unless you think referring to bad government policy in a disparaging manner is "racist".

[oxmixmudd]

Calling a white guy a monkey=not racist. Calling a black guy a monkey=racist. Why? Well, because reasons or something.

Exactly. And I've posted links to the history of the term and why that is the case. And I repeated a summary of why that is the case in the post which precedes this one.

So what? Times change Jim and acting as though things that were racist 100 years ago are today is as stupid as pretending words 100 years ago have the same meaning today. Monkey doesn’t have the same meaning today Jim that it had before Jim.



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Simply not true Pix. And again I refer you to what Carla Maloney said and why upon it being revealed she immediately resigned. Referencing black people as Monkeys is not 'something from the past'. It is alive right now. I've heard it too many times since I've moved near the Baltimore area. And I've heard it too many times in my time in the South. Perhaps you are simply ignorant of what's actually out there. But ignorance past this discussion of the matter would be your choice - you no longer have an excuse.

Jim

[Tassman]

Good grief you're an idiot.

Questioning the place of someone's birth is not racist. Heck, even the publishers of Obama's books sent out marketing material that said he was born in Kenya. Were they racists, too?

Trump didn't say that all Mexican immigrants were murders and rapists, he said that many of those who come here illegally are, and crime statistics are on his side: illegal immigrants are significantly more likely to commit violent crimes. However, he also conceded that there are some good people who enter the country illegally as well.

As for the s---hole country remark, was it ever confirmed that Trump actually said that? Secondly, the countries supposedly referred to aren't exactly a garden paradise.

Anyway, I'm not going to play any more of the game where low-info morons take the President's words and twist and turn them into something racist, and then another informed individual like me explains why you're wrong.

You mean as opposed to the low-info moron who quotes lying, dying Trump and his media surrogates verbatim as though it was factually based opinion of your own. You are the mouthpiece of racist ignorance, lies and unethical behaviour. You should be ashamed of yourself.

One of these days, you're going to have to put on your big boy pants and learn to identify fake news by yourself, because folks like me won't always be there to spoon feed you.

Fake news = Trump. The world knows it, opportunistic Evangelicals don't.

[oxmixmudd]

And DeSantis didn't use it in a racist context. Unless you think referring to bad government policy in a disparaging manner is "racist".

And you are also being purposefully optuse MM. I've explained multiple times now about "double entendre" and how the substitution of "Monkey" in the phrase makes it a racist slur, about how the use of double entendre allows just that, a double meaning. Your refusal to acknowledge the truth of those explanations is not something I have any real control over. But it doesn't change the simple facts of the case.

The only element of this that is not certain is what DeSantis' intent was. Did he just make a mistake, or was it a calculated use of the phrase.

The fact he will not apologize for it as a mistake would point to the latter, or something just as bad (a willingness to be opportunistically aligned with a racist slur)

Jim

[JimL]

So in Jimmy made up land being in the upper 10% of economies and being part of the G20 means nothing. That TDS really is terminal, isn’t it?

Being 12th is far from being a major economic power particularly when your GDP is only 1.5 trillion which is like 5 times smaller than Germany's GDP. They are so insignificant an economy that they were thrown out of the G8.

Tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theories, based on no evidence, deserves to be dismissed.

No tin foil hat Lilpix, Trump really is a crook, and that's well known by all, even though those like you could never admit to it. But as for the treason part, we'll just have to wait for the definite proof to come out before we gety to watch you and MM continue to refuse to admit that as well.

Yeah it sure sucks that you can’t simply ignore them and do whatever you please. How dare they want to be part of a republic and have an equal day in decisions that effect their lives. They need to shut up and let others tell them what to think. Yet again, you still can’t figure out why Queen Hillary wasn’t elected, huh?

Try making sense intead of your usual rambling nonsense and I'll answer you.

That’s right, being the chief executive he was powerless in this case, while in others he bypassed congress to do whatever he wanted. I sure hope that made more sense than saying it out loud. Obama showed a history of bypassing congress when he wanted something done and yet he was unable to bypass congress in this case.

Again, try to respond to what was actually said rather than rambling on about nothing. I never said Obama was powerless, I said that Obama took the info to Congress in the hopes that they would do the right thing, and they instead threatened to divide the country further if Obama made the intel on Russian meddling in the electoral process public. So he chose not to make it public in the interests of the country.

See, I got another theory, they were so sure Hillary was going to win they figured Russia’s small operation had almost no effect. When she lost, they decided to cook up this Russian conspiracy theory to undermine his presidency. Sorry Jimmy, but that makes more sense than your conspiracy theories.

Yes I know, Trump, the con man has you under his spell, has you parroting his lies. But that's because you're not very bright Lilpix. Trump lies nearly everytime he opens his mouth, and you, his supporters, continue to believe him. He knows you well!

[oxmixmudd]

According to the absolute master of truth, what is the right amount of time? Give me your objective measurement please.

Immediately is the only acceptable option. How long does it take to look up David Duke, assuming you don't know what he is. You read the words ... Grand Wizard of the KKK ... and you reject his endorsement right there on the spot without batting an eye. It's that simple. Anything less means there is a problem.

Not everyone on the other side was a racist. Some were simply free speech advocates. Typical TDS though, everyone that disagrees is a racist.

Err no. I have yet to meet a 'Free Speech Advocate' that would be on the side of the line with the Neo-Nazis and White-supremacists while they are chanting their various lines that was not ALSO a racist with ideological ties to the same.

The reality is, I've never met a person that could stomach what was going on on that side* of the line that wasn't also a racist.

Jim

*While I'd want to be identified with being on the non-WS/NeoN side, I doubt I could have stomached what was going on on that side of the line either.

[NorrinRadd]

Having consulted several dictionaries, it does seem that both "doofus" and "dufus" are valid spellings, though one does note that dufus is the less common spelling (and, at least in my opinion, looks more goofy).

I think you mean, "gufy."

[NorrinRadd]

...
I personally don't believe a person can use those terms without hosting racist sentiment. Sometimes a person can host a certain kind of resentment against blacks without ever using those terms, or Jewish people or whatever. But once a person actually voices those terms, it's gone way past just some sort of low level resentment. So since it's pretty clear he does voice those sorts or terms, at least sometimes, he's on his way if not already there.

It does not bother me even a tiny bit that Sarah can't guarantee that Trump has "never" used a racist term, because I frankly don't believe there is any adult anywhere in the 28 known galaxies that has "never" used a racist term. If you claim you never have, I don't believe you.