Colorado After Christian Baker - Again!

[oxmixmudd]

By "these folks" you presumably mean your fellow citizens who are entitled to equal rights under the law. Your "position" is discriminatory and unacceptable.

I think by 'these folks' he means a specific subset of the gay community that wants to force praise and adulation for being gay out of people that think it is an immoral behavior. Unfortunately, your capacity to recognize the sort of abuse this represents is itself discriminatory. You don't seem capable of comprehending that forcing people to violate their conscience is itself abusive and discriminatory behavior.

Jim

[JimL]

This has nothing to do with homosexuals seeking justice, its everything to do with a small minority of the LGBTQ community who wants to punish Christians for not celebrating them.

Thats just dumb. Even if as you say they are targeting Christians, they are targeting them because they are seeking justice for themselves, not because they want to punish Christians. Christians don't get to discriminate against jews or muslims just because being jewish or muslim is against christian beliefs, and for the same reason they don't get to discriminate against gay people either.

All evidence suggest that this Colorado baker was targeted people definitely out to get him. The trans-activist had been sending him all sorts of religiously offensive cakes to bake, satanist depictions etc. Its completely transparent in this case, like with most of them.

If he didn't discriminate against gays, then gays wouldn't be targeting him. I think you need to stop hating yourself Leonard. It makes no sense that a god would make you gay if being who you are were a sin.

[JimL]

I think by 'these folks' he means a specific subset of the gay community that wants to force praise and adulation for being gay out of people that think it is an immoral behavior. Unfortunately, your capacity to recognize the sort of abuse this represents is itself discriminatory. You don't seem capable of comprehending that forcing people to violate their conscience is itself abusive and discriminatory behavior.

Jim

They are not asking for praise or adulation, they're simply asking to be treated like every other legal citizen is treated, i.e. to not be discriminated against.

[lilpixieofterror]

They are not asking for praise or adulation, they're simply asking to be treated like every other legal citizen is treated, i.e. to not be discriminated against.

So I have the right to force you to work for me or else? Sweet, I really need help putting up drywall this weekend, care to help us out or else?

[Tassman]

I think by 'these folks' he means a specific subset of the gay community that wants to force praise and adulation for being gay out of people that think it is an immoral behavior.

Unfortunately, your capacity to recognize the sort of abuse this represents is itself discriminatory. You don't seem capable of comprehending that forcing people to violate their conscience is itself abusive and discriminatory behavior.

[Leonhard]

Even if as you say they are targeting Christians, they are targeting them because they are seeking justice for themselves,

The problem with that then is that if Christians indeed are targeted, because they are Christian, and if religion is a matter of this, then these cases can pretty much be thrown out of the window.

Thats just dumb ... I think you need to stop hating yourself Leonard. It makes no sense that a god would make you gay if being who you are were a sin.

Personal attacks, and confirming again that this is all about religion and nothing about gay rights. Good job Jim. Atta boy.

You're a good useful idiot. No indeed, go out there, and repeat everything you said here on a bunch of other forums. In that tone. Try to get as many members of the LGBTQ talking about the case in those words you're using here.

It means more win for our side.

[rogue06]

I think by 'these folks' he means a specific subset of the gay community that wants to force praise and adulation for being gay out of people that think it is an immoral behavior. Unfortunately, your capacity to recognize the sort of abuse this represents is itself discriminatory. You don't seem capable of comprehending that forcing people to violate their conscience is itself abusive and discriminatory behavior.

Jim

And that specific subset are solely comprised of conservative Christians. Note that they never, ever go into a halal (Muslim) bakery demanding a cake be made for a gay wedding in spite of there being videos out there of people going into Muslim-run bakeries and making such requests and being outright refused.

[Leonhard]

I believe a bakery run by Hasidic Jewish bakers following Kosher rules, who offer a service of making custom cakes, shouldn't be pressed to bake a cake according to designs or specifications they don't like. A couple about to engage in an inter-religious marriage getting a polite no for a special cake baked for their wedding, by those bakers is perfectly fine in my book. The same with Muslim Halal bakers baking for a Christian wedding (I've never heard of that being a problem, but if there was an outlier group of muslims not comfortable with that, I'd respect it).

As long as we talk about custom made cakes, t-shirts, designs, etc... with a specific message. Or we are talking about people who in bad faith target these bakers to get them in trouble, I think the rulings should favour the bakers.

A ruling like that has to be careful, so as to not undermine other civil rights. Which why I suspect the US Supreme Court made such a careful ruling last time. In all other respects I don't believe any baker has the right to deny cakes or products to people. There is a difficulty, but, at least to my ordinary eyes, I don't see what's impossible about making such a distinction.

It would literally harm no one. There simply isn't a lack of bakers willing to bake custom cakes for gay weddings. In many of these cases these bakers have been actively sought out by people who were calling around to find a baker who'd refuse. We're talking about a relatively rare experience of some customers getting a polite decline on a request for a cake to be baked according to certain specifications. Most of the other cases are someone like the recent person who's attacking the Colorado baker, someone who is clearly acting in bad faith, simply seeking to get the person into trouble and testing the legal boundaries.

[oxmixmudd]

Thats just dumb. Even if as you say they are targeting Christians, they are targeting them because they are seeking justice for themselves, not because they want to punish Christians. Christians don't get to discriminate against jews or muslims just because being jewish or muslim is against christian beliefs, and for the same reason they don't get to discriminate against gay people either.

This isn't about discrimination. It is about the baker being allowed to chose how he uses his artistic talent and skill in decorating a cake, any cake. Free speach guarantees him the right not to be forced to create art that is contrary to his beliefs and conscience.

If he didn't discriminate against gays, then gays wouldn't be targeting him. I think you need to stop hating yourself Leonard. It makes no sense that a god would make you gay if being who you are were a sin.

He doesn't discrimination against gays. If a gay person or couple wanted to by any standard product he makes, he would sell it to them. If a gay person or couple wanted to buy any specialty cake he is willing to make that doesn't carry with it a message that violates his conscience, he would create it for them. The issue is what message or concept the cake artwork itself must support and must be tailored to.

Your last comment is itself rather offensive. At least as offensive from my perspective as the baker saying no to creating the cake. I don't know what leonhard's situation is, but if he's gay, then he is certainly entitled to be a gay man with the opinions he holds about this issue, and does not need to be lectured by you about what constitutes a correct understanding of what being gay means.

You and Tassman and others have a long way to go in your understanding of what tolerance and acceptance actually mean in the grand scheme of things. But here is a hint. It doesn't mean that you necessarily have the right view of all things and can therefore impose your thinking on every issue onto another. In this case, there is a wide spectrum of belief about how to live a life if one has same-sex attraction. And it ranges from celibacy to full on acceptance of and participation in same-sex acts. To be accepting of 'gay' people, you must then accept this range of response as a personal matter and respect each person for taking the position they have taken, provided they are not destroying themselves or others in the process.


Jim

[DesertBerean]

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