Separating immigrant families and imprisoning children

[Cow Poke]

Children have been separeted from their parents for a very long period now. It is possible some of them will never see their parents again. The fact that you even ask in this situation is a rather good example of taking focus away from real suffering. Thanks for making it so obvious.

So, the fact that you're posting on an intertetzweb board, and not down there on the border actually doing something....

[Tassman]

So you are the person who determines if an idea of policy is inhuman then?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ldren-reunited

[Charles]

So you are the person who determines if an idea of policy is inhuman then?

Sparko, I don't think you seriously need anyone to tell you that children separated from their parents in a foreign country are suffering. I don't think you need anyone to tell you that they are suffering even more as separation continues for a very long period. And I don't think you need anyone to tell you that children who may never see their parents again due to these policies will suffer tremendeously.

I am surprised you even want to try to make at seem as if this is just my opinion or something I think I decide. But it is the line of "reasoning" provided in very many posts in this thread in which it seems Christians will do almost anything to take away moral responsibility or to even point to this being wrong. Thanks for making my points even more obvious.

[Charles]

Ah, so you're pulling a JimL --- "go look it up". I'll feel free to ignore the rest of your post, then.

Both you and Sparko continue to provide examples of what I describe so look at your own recent posts and Sparko's. This one is rather obvious: http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...l=1#post563141

Sparko obviously wants to take focus away from the fact that children are separated from their parents and some may never ever see them again. Instead of pointing to this as being unacceptable, he rather wants to focus on me. It is right there for everyone to see. But you are turning your blind eye to the least of these. And probably will continue to do so.

You find almost 900 posts in this thread and so many of them are filled with so called Christians who want to focus on anything but the children. It is all over. Or feel free to point to where you are pushing for higher standards, better treatment of the children or for there to be an end to this inhuman situation.

[Cow Poke]

Both you and Sparko continue to provide examples of what I describe so look at your own recent posts and Sparko's. This one is rather obvious: http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...l=1#post563141

Sparko obviously wants to take focus away from the fact that children are separated from their parents and some may never ever see them again. Instead of pointing to this as being unacceptable, he rather wants to focus on me. It is right there for everyone to see. But you are turning your blind eye to the least of these. And probably will continue to do so.

You find almost 900 posts in this thread and so many of them are filled with so called Christians who want to focus on anything but the children. It is all over. Or feel free to point to where you are pushing for higher standards, better treatment of the children or for there to be an end to this inhuman situation.

It's just idiotic to assume that, because we don't pile on about the problem on the border, we're "so-called Christians". I actually work every week with some of these kids locally - I don't have to blog about it on an internet site to "feel good" about it.

I have said repeatedly that the border situation is a mess, and I believe I have correctly blamed BOTH sides who don't appear to actually want to solve the problem, because they can use it as a political football. (You're using it as an issue in a similar fashion)

But here you are in all your faux outrage and sanctimonious bigotry declaring people are or are not "real Christians" based on what they post here about the border problem. That's just a new kind of stupid.

What are you actually DOING about the problem, aside from using it as a weapon to attack Christians?

[Tassman]

I have said repeatedly that the border situation is a mess, and I believe I have correctly blamed BOTH sides who don't appear to actually want to solve the problem, because they can use it as a political football. (You're using it as an issue in a similar fashion)

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ldren-reunited

[Cow Poke]

The border situation may well be "a mess"

It is - I've been there - multiple times.

but deliberate cruelty to innocent children is not the way to solve it.

This dramaqueenery is just goofy -- EVEN IF Trump intended DELIBERATE cruelty to innocent children, it would require a whole bunch of decent men and women to inflict that. Your willingness to smear good people just because of your hatred of Trump is just more rotten fruit from your own dark heart.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ldren-reunited

And the DEMOCRATS are just as complicit in this as the Republicans - and/or Trump - because both sides NEED this to use for political advantage. And you're just as complicit as they are, because all you do is spout hatred with ZERO actual relief.

[Charles]

This dramaqueenery is just goofy -- EVEN IF Trump intended DELIBERATE cruelty to innocent children, it would require a whole bunch of decent men and women to inflict that. Your willingness to smear good people just because of your hatred of Trump is just more rotten fruit from your own dark heart.

Sorry but where is the "dramaqueenery" in pointing to the fact that currently children are separated from their parents and may never see them again? No father honestly calls that dramaqueenery. Please give a clear answer. How is this dramagueenery? No personal attacks, no whataboutism. Answer the question please.

You can change the words and the descriptions. Reality remains the same. I note that once again you simply refuse to send the signal that this is the limit, this is a line of policy that you cannot or will not accept. You may describe it as a "mess" but you are seemingly not willing to say to those responsible that they have lost your vote for doing something this cruel and at the same time incompetent. You talk about Tassman's "willingness to smear good people". You do know what these people were involved in, right? You know the consequences could very well be that some children may never ever see their parents again, right? I don't think Tassman's primary aim is those people but those who bear the responsibility for the policy they enacted. But now you are putting the "good people" in between Tassman and Trump in order for him not to hold Trump responsible.

From a personal perspective, which Tassman may disagree with or not, I would say those "good people" like any persons working for governments need to ask themselves if they can justify enacting such a cruel and heartles policy. Being decent involves reflecting on the consequences of what you do no matter who asks you to do it. They have to justify their actions and I don't see how they can though they are not those who bear the main responsibility.

And the DEMOCRATS are just as complicit in this as the Republicans - and/or Trump - because both sides NEED this to use for political advantage. And you're just as complicit as they are, because all you do is spout hatred with ZERO actual relief.

Whataboutism and personal attacks like I predicted a couple of days ago. As opposed to you Tassman is sending a clear signal that Trump has certainly crossed the line here. Perhaps you and others should try and do the same. Perhaps it would send a message that you if you follow this line you will not be reelected? That is usually how democracy works (or at least used to work).

So again we note that yet another Christian simply sees no stop sign when the least of these have to pay the price of possibly never seeing their parents again. The sole idea of even admitting it is wrong and cruel is simply not there. Talking about Democrats, dramaqueenery and whatever seems to be the level we can hope for. It is like a bird that cannot even start to fly. You are simply failing to identify the moral issue and see the consequences for those who are forced to pay the price. Sad.

[Cow Poke]

Sorry but where is the "dramaqueenery" in pointing to the fact that currently children are separated from their parents and may never see them again?

Rather disingenuous of you, Charles - that is NOT what I said. My comment was specifically to Tassman's goofy "deliberate cruelty to innocent children", on which I expounded.

Until you respond more honestly, I'll choose to ignore the rest of your post.

[Tassman]

It is - I've been there - multiple times.



This dramaqueenery is just goofy -- EVEN IF Trump intended DELIBERATE cruelty to innocent children, it would require a whole bunch of decent men and women to inflict that. Your willingness to smear good people just because of your hatred of Trump is just more rotten fruit from your own dark heart.



And the DEMOCRATS are just as complicit in this as the Republicans - and/or Trump - because both sides NEED this to use for political advantage. And you're just as complicit as they are, because all you do is spout hatred with ZERO actual relief.

Your smear tactics and attempt to muddy the waters by spreading blame onto the Democrats cannot alter the fact that the Trump administration has callously, and seemingly indifferently, deployed deliberate cruelty to innocent children in order to pander to its racist base. Why do you defend such unacceptable behaviour?

[Charles]

Rather disingenuous of you, Charles - that is NOT what I said. My comment was specifically to Tassman's goofy "deliberate cruelty to innocent children", on which I expounded.

Until you respond more honestly, I'll choose to ignore the rest of your post.

And what Tassman calls "deliberate cruelty to innocent children" is exactly that. The separation of children from their parent, possibly forever. You said calling it "deliberate cruelty to innocent children" was dramagueenery. Why? You litterally take a crying child from its' mother or father and they may never see them again. So perhaps you should try to confront the moral issue insead of the whataboutism, you are being dishonest and whatever talk.

You are not only ignoring the rest of my post. You are ignoring the moral issue. I am looking forward to see the Christians confront this issue from the perspective of the least of these. Because it is painfully obvious that some of you are so afraid to do so that you try to put focus away immediately.

[carpedm9587]

This dramaqueenery is just goofy -- EVEN IF Trump intended DELIBERATE cruelty to innocent children, it would require a whole bunch of decent men and women to inflict that. Your willingness to smear good people just because of your hatred of Trump is just more rotten fruit from your own dark heart.

Seriously, CP? Have you never heard of the Milgram Experiment? Have you note read the history of the spread of the Nazi philosophy in Germany? Explored the McCarthy trials? Explored the impact of herd mentality on decision making?

Yes, it is entirely possible that otherwise good people have cooperated in doing this thing to these children, under the banner of "obedience," or "herd mentality," or because they share philosophical traits with Trump/Miller/Bannon and their ilk.

Indeed, it is these exact dynamics that I think explain the mind-boggling acceptance and defense of a man like Trump by the Christian right. And it is what makes that acceptance more than a little scary to the rest of us who know a bit about history and have seen this story unfold in other places. So far, our institutions have kept Trump in check, to some degree. But he continually works to erode those institutions - undermining the fourth estate at every turn, essentially establishing a government media arm, questioning the integrity of our intelligence and law enforcement agencies, and continually positioning the opposing party as an "enemy." What was once unheard of is now commonplace. Things like hearing the highest-level of our national law-enforcement arm - the chief executive - publicly calling for the incarceration of free citizens without any preceding due process. Dismissing personnel through public media channels. And executing on long-desired goals of Moscow: the weakening of NATO and the diminishment of the EU. No previous president that I know of ever consistently took the side of dictators and strongmen and attacked our strategic partners and allies.

Some of what this man has done will be reparable after he is shown the door in 2020. Some, I am afraid, will not be.

[Cow Poke]

Seriously, CP? Have you never heard of the Milgram Experiment? Have you note read the history of the spread of the Nazi philosophy in Germany?

Wow....

[Cow Poke]

Your smear tactics and attempt to muddy the waters by spreading blame onto the Democrats

Hey, Trumpman ---- I'm not blaming the Democrats --- that is an outright lie, just like the man you hate. I blame BOTH parties.

cannot alter the fact that the Trump administration has callously, and seemingly indifferently,

You're building up a head of steam that's gonna cause you to overshoot the runway... so far, so good, but.....

deployed deliberate cruelty to innocent children in order to pander to its racist base.

And there you go!

Why do you defend such unacceptable behaviour?

Yet another Trumplke mistruth / false allegation. You really are becoming just like him! Pretty soon, you're face is gonna be turning orange!

[Tassman]

Hey, Trumpman ---- I'm not blaming the Democrats --- that is an outright lie, just like the man you hate. I blame BOTH parties.

You're building up a head of steam that's gonna cause you to overshoot the runway... so far, so good, but.....



And there you go!

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...omination.html

It was a deliberate, stated policy of cruelty to innocent children in order to pander to Trump's racist base. And it seems from your defence of it that it worked.

Yet another Trumplke mistruth / false allegation. You really are becoming just like him! Pretty soon, you're face is gonna be turning orange!