NFL�s Proposed National Anthem Rules

[Cow Poke]

Here is an entire reverse timeline of all of the events, starting with Kaepernick in august 2016

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/tim...them/614679920

Interesting, so it did NOT start with the "take a knee" thing - that only evolved later....

August 20, 2016 - Kaepernick sits for second time during national anthem

Colin Kaepernick remains seated before the San Francisco 49ers second preseason game against the Denver Broncos. Kaepernick is not in uniform, and does not play in the game.

August 14, 2016 - Kaepernick first sits during national anthem

San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick makes national headlines when he remains seated during the national anthem before the 49ers first preseason game against the Texans. Kaepernick was not in uniform and did not play.

So, kinda like, "hey, while everybody else in the stadium is standing, facing the flag in reverence, I'm gonna sit here on my butt in protest.... I mean... what could POSSIBLY go WRONG?"

[Sparko]

Interesting, so it did NOT start with the "take a knee" thing - that only evolved later....

August 20, 2016 - Kaepernick sits for second time during national anthem

Colin Kaepernick remains seated before the San Francisco 49ers second preseason game against the Denver Broncos. Kaepernick is not in uniform, and does not play in the game.

August 14, 2016 - Kaepernick first sits during national anthem

San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick makes national headlines when he remains seated during the national anthem before the 49ers first preseason game against the Texans. Kaepernick was not in uniform and did not play.

So, kinda like, "hey, while everybody else in the stadium is standing, facing the flag in reverence, I'm gonna sit here on my butt in protest.... I mean... what could POSSIBLY go WRONG?"

Yeah. It kinda messes up the whole "kneeling is actually respectful" narrative that Carp was pushing earlier. It was always about disrespect.

[Cow Poke]

Yeah. It kinda messes up the whole "kneeling is actually respectful" narrative that Carp was pushing earlier. It was always about disrespect.

It's like the whole "hands up - don't shoot" thing all over again. Find SOME WAY to justify your actions, even if it means leaving out key details, or making up others.

[Cow Poke]

And I repeat that kneeling is one of the most reverential postures a human can adopt. So the problem is...?

Sparko just blew that out of the water - it wasn't about kneeling - it was a sit-out.

[carpedm9587]

Sparko just blew that out of the water - it wasn't about kneeling - it was a sit-out.

As you noted - it evolved to the "take a knee" posture, which is actually a posture of allegiance. And no one is disputing that these people were saying, "we will not stand for a flag/anthem that does not represent all of us equally," so of course they were protesting both the flag and the action. And if you read my posts, I made it clear I was not condoning every action by every person (e.g., pig socks, etc.). Sitting I do not have a problem with.

When the flag does not stand equal for all, it is a viable place to focus protests, IMO. So in that analysis I did, I'm in Group 4.

[Cow Poke]

As you noted - it evolved to the "take a knee" posture, which is actually a posture of allegiance.

Well, yeah, but I've been saying all along that this wasn't such a bright idea on the players' part, and I think that's been proven pretty clearly.

And no one is disputing that these people were saying, "we will not stand for a flag/anthem that does not represent all of us equally," so of course they were protesting both the flag and the action.

A "sit-out", not a reverent protest on their knee.

Personally, I don't have a problem with it.

Of course you don't!

When the flag does not stand equal for all, it is a viable place to focus protests, IMO. So in that analysis, I'm in Group 4.

And I'm vindicated - it was a really dumb way to protest. So much so, that they had to change it from a sit-out to "taking a knee".

[carpedm9587]

Well, yeah, but I've been saying all along that this wasn't such a bright idea on the players' part, and I think that's been proven pretty clearly.

A "sit-out", not a reverent protest on their knee.

Of course you don't!

And I'm vindicated - it was a really dumb way to protest. So much so, that they had to change it from a sit-out to "taking a knee".

Gee...if I didn't know better...I'd think you needed to win more than you needed to have a conversation...

[Cow Poke]

Gee...if I didn't know better...I'd think you needed to win more than you needed to have a conversation...

"sit-out", not "reverent kneeling".

[carpedm9587]

"sit-out", not "reverent kneeling".

Of course it's a "sit out..."


...executed using a posture associated with allegiance...

[Cow Poke]

Of course it's a "sit out..."


...executed using a posture associated with allegiance...

ONLY if "sitting on your butt" while everybody else is standing in allegiance is, in your world, a "posture of respect".

Wedding... Wedding music is playing... erupts into fanfare.... Bride enters the venue... "All STAND"... ex-boyfriend remains seated in a "posture of respect" to ... um..

[carpedm9587]

ONLY if "sitting on your butt" while everybody else is standing in allegiance is, in your world, a "posture of respect".

Wedding... Wedding music is playing... erupts into fanfare.... Bride enters the venue... "All STAND"... ex-boyfriend remains seated in a "posture of respect" to ... um..

Well - some protesters sit - and some take a knee.

And the ex-boyfriend is sitting because he's tired. He spent the night last night with his new girlfriend and she wore him out...

[One Bad Pig]

You know, I was going to disagree with you, until I applied a little logic to the question. So it strikes me that, related to this issue, there are four kinds of people:

1. Sensitive to flag/anthem issues and sensitive to criticism of police
2. Sensitive to flag/anthem issues and insensitive to criticism of police
3. Insensitive to flag/anthem issues and sensitive to criticism of police
4. Insensitive to flag/anthem issues and insensitive to criticism of police

Groups 1 and 3 are a loss; they aren't going to listen to any criticism of the police because that is, in their minds, disrespecting people who put themselves on the line each day. For the record, it is possible to respect these people AND be critical of them. The alternative is folly, because it suggests that their sacrifice makes them immune to examination, which is a wide open door for corruption. That leaves Groups 2 and 4. Group 2 is going to do exactly what your criticism suggests. Group 4 will be made aware of the issue without raising the hair on the back of their necks.

So the question is, which group is larger and what proportion of them watch football. If Group 2 is larger and/or more of them watch football, this is not the best way to call attention to the issue. If Group 4 is larger and/or more of them watch football, this is a good way to call attention to the issue.

I'm having a very difficult time trying to understand what in the world you mean by "sensitive" and "insensitive." Further, your buckets don't come close to capturing my position regardless of what you intend by those words.

I see the protesters largely as entitled rich guys making a mountain out of a molehill by playing identity politics. I agree that police should try to avoid shooting unarmed people with an abundance of melanin. Nearly everyone already agrees with that, however, so what is protesting going to accomplish? Black on black violence is orders of magnitude larger, yet that doesn't ever seem to be a priority. So I have no sympathy for the protesters or their cause, and I despise identity politics. I just want to watch football.

[Cow Poke]

I'm having a very difficult time trying to understand what in the world you mean by "sensitive" and "insensitive." Further, your buckets don't come close to capturing my position regardless of what you intend by those words.

I see the protesters largely as entitled rich guys making a mountain out of a molehill by playing identity politics. I agree that police should try to avoid shooting unarmed people with an abundance of melanin. Nearly everyone already agrees with that, however, so what is protesting going to accomplish? Black on black violence is orders of magnitude larger, yet that doesn't ever seem to be a priority. So I have no sympathy for the protesters or their cause, and I despise identity politics. I just want to watch football.

That!

[Sparko]

Gee...if I didn't know better...I'd think you needed to win more than you needed to have a conversation...

This is ironic coming from you.

[Cow Poke]

Well - some protesters sit - and some take a knee.

And some start out sitting down, and when that blows up in their face, they try to make it more noble by "taking a knee", and they totally dupe otherwise intelligent people into believing that's what it's been about from the beginning.